recording ambiance sounds on a film set - tips?

[Jordzen]

heya

I've been asked to work on a film set to capture the audio side of things.

The main objective is to capture the locations ambiance/sounds for the soundtrack (which I will then also be writing).

If anyone has any advice/links/tips/pointers about how best to do this, i'd greatly appreciate it. such as, which mic is best suited, and if there are any specific techniques for getting better results.

I'm very new to this so any advice would be great.

[Jordzen]

sorry its not on an actual set - its being filmed outdoors.

so no dialogue involved - just recording sounds from the going-ons on the street.

how does one do this best?

[gibong]

Use a stereo recoding setup

- a stereo mic, or two mics configured to do stereo or binaural, etc.
- and a two channel recorder - you could use a laptop and a two channel preamp or a portable DAT or a Minidisc
-to capture certain sounds - a shotgun mic is also handy

For staight ambience recording, you can also try out one of those all-in-one handheld stereo units from Zoom or similar. I've never used them so I can't testify to their sound quality.

The most important factor to consider is portability - so the less clutter the better. I have used portable DATs and a variety of stereo mics in the past. You'll also need a variety of other items such as windscreens, etc.

[Big Tim]

Don't forget to record at 48k...

[Jordzen]

ok thanks for this!

i have the shotgun mic and the 2-channel preamp (RNP) and the laptop - and thx for reminding me about the 48khz.

but i dont have a stereo mic. if i decide to use two mics configured to do stereo, as you say, how should i set them up in that way in an outdoor area? do i just use mic stands as usual???

other question: is it necessary to use a compressor? or is that not necessary for this kind of recording?

last question: i assume i should be wearing cans to monitor the sound as i record it? If so, is there anything specif i should be listening out for during the tracking?

soz 4 noobz questionz!

[gibong]

ok thanks for this!

i have the shotgun mic and the 2-channel preamp (RNP) and the laptop - and thx for reminding me about the 48khz.

but i dont have a stereo mic. if i decide to use two mics configured to do stereo, as you say, how should i set them up in that way in an outdoor area? do i just use mic stands as usual???

other question: is it necessary to use a compressor? or is that not necessary for this kind of recording?

last question: i assume i should be wearing cans to monitor the sound as i record it? If so, is there anything specif i should be listening out for during the tracking?

soz 4 noobz questionz!

Mic stands can work if you don't need to move around much, but it I think they are a pain for field recording. Get a stereo mic bar if you want to use two separate mics. I prefer to use a single stereo mic with a windscreen on a hand-held boom pole.

Compressors are not necessary (IMO). Scope out the area for a while to know how loud things get...then set gain accordingly.

Listen for wind, mechanical and equipment noise. Learn how to hold the boom pole without transmitting rumble.

[Rick Levine]

Wind screens are essential for recording outdoors. They're foam coverings for the mic, and can be bought after market for most mics. There are cool mics for doing this work. A bud of mine who does outdoor work with the local philharmonic recommended this for me, knowing my budget.
http://www.zzounds.com/item--RODNT4

[gibong]

The NT4 can be battery powered. It sounds pretty decent in the studio as well.

...which begs the question..have you thought about power? Are you going to use generators or power inverters? (You need to plug in the RNP into something). What are you using for an interface?

edit: make sure to check out equipment rentals if you can't afford to buy a new mic, etc.

[Jordzen]

yeah i will have access to power. (whats a power inverter - do i need one if i have power already?)

the RNP is going to interface directly into the input on a laptop (XLR to mini TRS) - not ideal but should do?

unfortunately i dont have an NT4 and im leaving for this job in a few hours.

thinking of setting up an SM57 and an SM81 - i have wind screens for them - to get some sort of stereo recording. :S

thanks for your help guys - ill check here again b4 i go to see if theres any more tips!

thanks again

[gibong]

Good luck! Not an ideal setup, but I'm sure you can make it work. If it doesn't sound good in stereo, then use the best sounding channel in mono.

BTW power inverters create AC power out of car batteries - usually through the cigarette lighter plug. These can pose noise problems on some recording equipment.

[Jordzen]

thx!

oh one last thing im wondering about.

the laptop only has one input so im going to have to record mono whether i want to or not.

the RNP has TRS and XLR outputs. if i plug a mic into one of the RNP inputs and take a lead out to the laptop, will that work if I use a simple guitar-lead-type cable?

or does it need to have a TRS jack? soz, bit nooby on the tech side of things.

i have a number of leads but they are all double-jack leads. Will it work if I use one of these and only plug in one of the two jacks between the RNP and the laptop? (coz, like i said, the laptop only has one input)

this is what i mean

[gibong]

I think I understand what you are saying.

That cable should work (assuming you have an appropriate adapter at the laptop line-in jack).

[Jordzen]

yeah i got that

thanks dude

[Jordzen]

hey thanks again for your help - it was a big help. turns out it was a proper film crew on an old-western style film set. i had a blast - was the best fun hopefully will be doing more of this in future. it even rained so had to improvise a mini-umbrella for the mic :S

in the end i managed to get hold of a sennheiser shotgun mic, and a boom pole for the day.

I would love to get more info from you guys in this line of work/hobby about what gear is the best to use and techniques etc. I got pretty good at not getting the boom inside the camera frame, in fact they never had to cut a take bcoz of me (which im relieved about!) but im sure theres a lot more to it than just that.

i also gathered that portability is a big factor and i assume that a laptop and a pre (+ wires/cables/power adaptors etc) arent exactly the most convenient setup. so what is the sound recordist's setup in a film crew? do they use portable wav recorders?

the handy thing about the laptop was that i could SEE the waveform as the tracking occurred, which allowed me to get a better idea of the levels on the fly.

[gibong]

Portability is key for sure. I haven't done this in years, but our company has experienced guys who do this for us. We have a few field recorders of various types (HHB Portadiscs, HHB Portadrives, some older porta DATs, etc.)

Good entry-level hobbyist systems use those flashdrive/solidstate recorders from iRiver, etc or consumer MiniDisc recorders.

Have a look here for some great tips:

http://www.phonography.org/gear.htm

[Jordzen]

great thanks for that!

i didnt quite understand the difference between the portadiscs and the portadrives :S and also theres no prices.... but great resource for starting off - cheers

[gibong]

great thanks for that!

i didnt quite understand the difference between the portadiscs and the portadrives :S and also theres no prices.... but great resource for starting off - cheers

The Portadisc uses MiniDiscs as the recording medium. Portadrives use hardrives. HHB products are expensive....I think we paid $15K(??) for our Portadrive! The Portadisc is about $1000??

Definitely check out the Korg MR-1 and the M-Audio MicroTrack.

I have been hearing very good things about the MR-1 (it uses 1-bit/2.8MHz recording). Not cheap though - about $700-800.

[Jordzen]

wow 15k!!?!?!? what's it made of, 24ct gold!?

im not sure about the portadisc, i already have a traditional minidisc recorder and I find using discs really frustrating. is there an advantage to using a minidisc medium rather than recording straight to hdd? (im guessing price difference is the answer here).

i looked at the korg you mentioned, the MR1000 looks more like the thing, with added XLR jacks, peak meters etc etc - price is about $1200 ...hmmm

[gibong]

wow 15k!!?!?!? what's it made of, 24ct gold!?

im not sure about the portadisc, i already have a traditional minidisc recorder and I find using discs really frustrating. is there an advantage to using a minidisc medium rather than recording straight to hdd? (im guessing price difference is the answer here).

i looked at the korg you mentioned, the MR1000 looks more like the thing, with added XLR jacks, peak meters etc etc - price is about $1200 ...hmmm

Don't quote me on the 15K...(I didn't do the actual purchase...our Sound Dept did. I did remember choking at the price...this was at a time when the CAD-USD exchange rate was poor.) It's pretty feature packed..8 channels.

Minidisc - yes it is the cost of the medium. You can take a look at stereo CD-R recorders. The pricing for the devices are similar.

The MR1000 looks nice.

What is your budget? It sounds like you are getting serious about this. You are clearly attracted to pro-level stuff. Fostex, Tascam, HHB, Sony, Edirol, etc all make them in various price ranges. The "pro level" sweet spot is around the $1200-1500 range. Remember to include the price of cables, mics, wind zeps, boom poles. It will probably run you around 2500 when all is sad and done.

However, you should look at the lower priced recorders (perhaps the solidstate ones) and pair them with nice stereo mics as a starter system.

And have a look at rentals.

[TKMJ Productions]

yeah i will have access to power. (whats a power inverter - do i need one if i have power already?)

the RNP is going to interface directly into the input on a laptop (XLR to mini TRS) - not ideal but should do?

unfortunately i dont have an NT4 and im leaving for this job in a few hours.

thinking of setting up an SM57 and an SM81 - i have wind screens for them - to get some sort of stereo recording. :S

thanks for your help guys - ill check here again b4 i go to see if theres any more tips!

thanks again

If you are going to use your system on a genset, make sure it is stable and has a good wave form at 60hz. Genset can play hell on computer and sound equipment. There are two types of gensets on the market. The cheapies that use "ANR" type voltage regulation and the good ones are "Inverter" type. There is a big difference in the two types. ANR type regulation is used in construction type gensets. They are very unstable and play hell on electronics. However they work well for motors like drills and power saws that dont require a stable voltage. Inverter type gensets have a high quality voltage regulation system. They are very expensive but worth every penny if you are using electonic devices in a remote location.

My sound company specializes in remote recording and FOH sound. We do a lot of gigs where power company power is not available. In these cases we pull out the Honda EX3000s. They cost $1800 each for 2500 watts of clean power. 2400 watts is equal to a 20 amp circuit at 120 volts. According to the National Electric Code, 80% useage of a circuit is considered safe without creating an overheating problem to extention cords. The newer Hondas also have the lowest db rating on the market for genset noise. You will want the genset at least 200 feet away from the set and sound blocked so you don't get any ambient genset exhaust noise into your mics. If someone tells you that you can plug into their genset. Tell them NO THANK YOU!!!! You don't know where that genset has been. Don't trust anything but a Honda or other inverter type high quality genset.

They also make an inverter that hooks to your car battery to produce 120 volts. Using a car inverter works very well and is stable. You can usually find them at truckstops in the truckers stores or online. Motorhome dealers also carry them. Walmart and some automotive parts stores also carry them. Make sure the running output wattage is double the load you are planning on using. On a side note, they can kill your car battery very fast so you may want to keep the car running or get a good set of jumper cables.

PRO NOTE: If you can hear the genset running, So can your mic. If you can't hear the genset running, ask your mic if it can hear it. Don't be surprised if the mic tells you "yes"! Mics are very sensative in these matters. Keep your mics calm and they will make you happy!

Ken