Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 I/O FireWire Audio Interface

[Tweak]

Focusrite Saffire Pro 40 I/O FireWire Audio Interface
http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--FOCSAFFPRO40/sid--showroom




Focusrite's unparalleled pre-amp legacy forms the foundation of this new interface, with eight award-winning Focusrite pre-amps. These are combined with the very latest in firewire interfacing technology to deliver seamless integration, excellent routing flexibility and future-proof, rock-solid driver stability. With Saffire PRO 40, sonic integrity reigns supreme. The eight Focusite pre-amps ensure low noise and distortion, whilst quality digital conversion and JetPLL(TM) jitter elimination technology ensure pristine audio quality as your audio flows between the analogue and digital domains.

[musicotto]

In case someone cares - we got this last week. It is hooked up to a '2007 MacBook (Intel, the white one, OS X 10.6.2). We'll also try a MacMini with 10.5.8 and another with 10.6.2.

Out of box I noticed that CSA (Canadian product safety) seems to have "specially treated" our box and the 90-250 V rating has been blacked out + some CSA stickers over screws. Not sure that they have really changed anything, they might just not like the 90-250V spec for Canadians... I have written to tech support in UK to ask about what this really means.

Hooking up was easy enough - the Mic Pres work, the line ins too. Enough gain to hear an Ant cough in the basement.

The routing and mixing options are really nice - the manual is crap, though. If I didn't have a basic understanding of how mixers work, I might have needed days to figure it out (thanks to Tweak for excellent explanations about routing, too!).

I haven't tried any of the ADAT or S/PDIF options yet, nor the MIDI (the piano has USB MIDI and I don't have regular MIDI cables)

No DSP on board, so some time in the future I will try to route through an outboard reverb and see how that works (as long as all my inputs aren't full).

The software update was the first challenge - although the installer asks for administrator password if started on a non-admin account, it silently fails. I had to run it from an admin account. It updated the firmware of the interface, too.
The next problem was the new Mix Control 1.7 application - it would only run on the admin account - reason were screwed up access rights in the application bundle. After setting the access rights of every directory in the bundle + the main binary to execution for all (you can do this in finder, but it works faster on the command line) it works now for all users. Wrote another ticket to tech support.

Don't expect a sound review from me - I have no reference or experience whatsoever, I can only say it sounds amazing in comparison to the onboard sound (otherwise i'd return it )

One issue on the Mac might be the Latency - the driver seems to allow 256 samples as smallest buffer. Not sure, though, as the software won't tell - they just call it "short" "medium" "long" "very long" (another ticket to tech support). Judging from the documentation, the windows drivers might be different. When using software monitoring, only "short" is acceptable and inaudible (snipping fingers). For the piano higher latencies seem to be OK for my girlfriend. Routed monitoring through the Mixer application is instantaneous for my ears.

Greetings from Canada, Otto

[jblopez]

Has anyone tried out this interface?

reading the specs on several websites I see it is an very impressive interface by matching focusrite preamps with nice converters...

but... does really all that results in real live stunning performance or just marketing tricks?

Please someone postttt!

[Tweak]

Anyone have it? Inquiring minds need to know...

[daver123]

Hi,
I also wanted to know about this interface. I have a Macbook pro and am planing on getting a firewire interface.

I am going back and forth with the Saffire pro 40 and the new impact Twin. Any ideas?

[musicotto]

I still own it... we have made some recordings by now - recording 5 Tracks including software montoring through some plugins (I don't have more inputs) with Ardour or Garageband works fine on a white MacBook (2007), no Firewire or CPU bandwidth issues although the CPU does get visibly (and audibly) loaded.

Being able to split monitoring chains for instruments onto the speakers and microphones onto headsets only through their software mixer really is a plus (everything is in the same room). Although normally we don't record microphones while monitoring instruments through the speakers, setting this up properly helps protecting your hearing and equipment . You just have to pay attention to not let the microphones route into your monitors through other routes such as GarageBand.

Focusrite has fixed the OS X installer for their software mixer (current version 1.8 - their answer to the ticket concerning the installer implied that my ticket prompted them to fix it for which I give them good grades; nothing much else in the OS X package seems to have changed otherwise) so after installation also non-administrator users can use the application but their answer concerning buffer sizes and latency was not very exhaustive
That seems to boil down to timing it for an answer but I have just returned from vacation - it might be a while until I get everything rigged to doing that. Their answer seems to imply that the CoreAudio buffer structure reacts independently to their driver, so their settings only represent ranges that CoreAudio software can then pick from. Can anyone direct me to technical documentation about CoreAudio...?

In the meantime I have tested the interface with a MacMini on FW800 and it works fine using a FW800-FW400 cable. The MIDI also works (as was to be expected) and S/PDIF in and out play along fine - that might actually be an option to hook up S/PDIF devices like secondary computers (you don't need to use that on the FW host computer since there are plenty of looping options available either in hardware in the PRO40 or in software - I especially recommend taking a look at JackOSX, which lets you route audio from any application to any application in a software patchbay).
Running my MIDI through the PRO40 instead of through USB for me solves one potential ground-loop issue and has the added benefit of reducing the number of connections between computer and studio to 1 FireWire.

Other experience:
Generally the PRO40 seems to be very stable on the input chain, but the outputs occasionally have issues with the clock signal IF the computer ever went to sleep with the interface attached (that was reproducible).
So for your session you are best off hooking everything up cold, then boot your computer (Mac in my case) and disable all power-saving states for the duration of your session. That way I have never had a glitch. In all cases where I had issues, only the outputs were affected (inputs kept working fine) and setting the clock to something else and then back would fix it. Only GarageBand has had this happen, I was unable to provoke it with Ardour/JACK (which offer direct control over the clock as opposed to GarageBand) - very possible that the issue is specific to GB. YMMV

If you have specific questions please let me know and I will try to answer them - within the limits of my possibilities of course.

Greetings from Canada and a happy new year, Otto

[musicotto]

OK, I got to record a bit with it and also had some opportunity to play with the preamps. As I have no recording experience, please come to your own conclusions from what I write.

Recording and playing back at 44.1 kHz works flawlessly now (I'll have to try other sample frequencies some other day). We have recorded 8 simultaneous tracks with a local band and used the AI internal routing to put the AI in front of their mixing board. So essentially we replaced their pres with the AI's ones and routed each input to a line output and into their regular mixing setup (which is pretty much zero latency). It is very handy that there are 10 outputs, so you can do that and STILL have a a stereo pair of outputs left for playback from the DAW or make another monitor mix outside their board; of course in this particular setup you can solve the playback by just going back through the same tracking outputs.

The pres have enough gain to work with dynamic microphones (tested the omnipresent SM57/58) without adding noise - for quieter sources just so, for loud singers and amps etc. with some gain to spare. Unfortunately the scale around the knobs is just 0 - 10 and not dB gain. Up to 9 there is no real noise to be heard from the input, between 9-10 there is some, but I have no reference to tell whether it is disproportional or acceptable. You don't hear it unless you really crank up the output. However for all my microphones I stayed well below that. The SM58 was max with 8 for medium SPL sources (like my own voice at conversation level).
The input switches to line in when you insert a 1/4" Jack (and ONLY that way, a switch would actually be nice, but the attractive price has to come from somewhere) which is a bit unfortunate; we had to use the XLR in for some line sources because we didn't have enough adapters. It works, but boy is the signal ever hot. You basically reduce the gain (in the pre-mode coming in XLR) to 0 and try to control the serving output.
When switched to line-mode by using a TRS plug to go in, the control knob becomes a trim control with unity at 5 on the scale and some (haven't measured it quantitatively) gain and attenuation available. Works very nicely that way. Since there are only switcheable pads for inputs 1 and 2, for the others you are well advised to use the correct input plug format. I am stocking up on XLR-TRS cables.

Soundwise I can only say that I find the inputs/pres and the converters to be neutral - I can't hear any distortion and the dynamics sound like I hear them with my ears live. Swallow with caution, see above disclaimer. I am not trained nor conditioned.

I got around to playing with some latency measurements, too. As suspected by me (but not confirmed by Focusrite), the driver settings under OS X seem to translate into a hardwired driver-buffer size. 256 (5.8 ms @44.1 kHz, 11.6 ms round-trip) samples seems to be the minimum for OS X and CoreAudio with the current driver and the "short" setting. I have measured with Ardour and JACK (which adds another layer of buffering) An update is brewing in their beta-staging area but it also updates the firmware, so I am holding off of that for now.
According to the documentation, under Windows and ASIO less should be possbile if you need it. I am still experimenting, I'll keep you posted. Right now I am working on getting it to talk to JACK under linux (FFADO is still beta for the PRO40)...

Greetings from Canada, Otto

[Tweak]

Thanks for the reviews musicotto! Really helps those considering the unit.

[seanakio]

Good review, thanks. Im wondering what happening with the windows platform...I mean eventually they would have to release some solid updates for win 7 right?

[musicotto]

The Win7 driver 32/64 bit is in their beta staging area together with the OS X 10.6 64bit beta. They are at beta3, I have seen a new beta roll through every month so far (but beta 2 has been recalled) - can't be too long before release. It also includes firmware upgrades to the device, which is why I am holding back on trying it.

I have done more tests concerning latency and I am beginning to figure out the structure of the buffers (in, out, HW routing, Mixing). Maybe I get it sorted out today. Why am I so interested in that? The driver-latency can be measured by the DAW software but not easily compensated unless you understand how much happens where... I haven't figured out a way to determine whether input-latency=output-latency yet; so for now I am assuming it to be symmetric.

Otto

[seanakio]

Just saw this while checking it out for the millionth time...

located here
http://www.focusrite.com/products/saffire/saffire_pro_40/#Specifications

Compatible with:

Windows XP

Service Pack 2 and above only.
Windows XP - 64bit

Service Pack 2 and above only.
Windows Vista

Windows Vista - 64bit

Windows Windows 7

From version 2.0 of Saffire Mix Control, Windows 7 is fully supported without the need to downgrade to the Windows Legacy FireWire driver.
Windows Windows 7 - 64bit

From version 2.0 of Saffire Mix Control, Windows 7 is fully supported without the need to downgrade to the Windows Legacy FireWire driver.
Mac 10.4

10.4.11 is supported on version 1.8 of Saffire Mix Control only.
Mac 10.5

Mac 10.6

From version 2.0 of Saffire Mix Control, both the 32 and 64 bit kernels of 10.6 (Snow Leopard) are fully supported.

[Weasel9992]

I bought one of these a while ago for location stuff...love it. I agree about the manual though. It's terrible. I figured it out pretty fast because I've used a million different interfaces, but man...if you have no idea what end is up this might be a tough piece to figure out. I've got it paired with Reaper on a MacBook running 10.4.1 at 128 samples...no problems at all unless I add a convolution reverb. The only thing I do is track on the MacBook though...I mix on the PC in the studio.

Bottom line is, this is a great interface. The preamps are nice and the conversion is pretty good.

Frank

[seanakio]

Thanks for the review. I still havent picked one up yet but I might just do it, it has everything I need and will cover whatever I end up getting into in the future.

[Weasel9992]

Just as a post script...the converters are great and the preamps are nothing to sneeze at. The plugins that come with it are pretty great too...ugly GUI's, but they sound really good.

Frank

[treelzebub]

I am thinking about purchasing this. I have a PC running Win7, Intel Duo-Core2 3.00gHz, 4GB RAM. I currently use Nuendo3, but since it's not really loving Win7, I'm thinking of switching DAWs.

Has anyone used this card with Windows 7 (I'm using the 32-bit version)? If so, what DAW did you use, and what were your results?

Thanks so much!
-tre

ps- thanks to musicotto for the reviews. very helpful!

[gaius]

Hi all,

Anymore update on this unit?
I'm considering getting Saffire Pro 24.
In the list also M-audio's Profire 610.

The 2 things that will turn me to M-audio would be the discussed 'driver stability' and 'latency'.
If these two issues are non-existent after all the driver updates, then I'd go for Saffire Pro 24.
Anymore feedback from Saffire user?
Thanks!