FYI: White Macbooks May Not Work for DAW Now

[chiefnobum]

Sorry if this is old news, but I just saw a couple clips on the net that Apple updated the white Macbooks to now have the nVidia chipset and integrated graphics which may cause issues. I also couldn't immediately find whether the firewire port is still there or not. I'm assuming it would be, but not sure.

They did bump the processor to the faster FSB of 1066Mhz and 2GB of RAM is standard, but RAM stays at DDR2. Just an FYI as before it was being recommended to buy the white ones, but this may not be the best idea now.

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-101 ... eStories.0
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/White- ... ,6876.html

[Nanashiwanderer]

According to apples website the Firewire port is still there. As long as its texas instruments it should work with 75% of interfaces around.


Maybe it was sympathy. There was talking about NVIDIA exiting chipsets until apple announced their using the NVIDIA chipsets on the Mac Book. On the PC platform, they got hammered badly. Almost all the design contracts with Intel's Montevina or AMD's Puma , they're already out of the server business and with Intel having SLI there demand for NVIDIA intel chipsets are nonexistent. Many brands don't offer NVIDIA's highend boards on desktops. On top of that there are no NVIDIA Core i7 Chipsets at the moment, I don' know if they even have a liscence anymore. If that is the case there is possibility NVIDIA won't even be an option 2 years from now.

[djsmelly23]

how about all the new alum macbooks/pros, arent they using nvidia?

[davidaltemeier]

how about all the new alum macbooks/pros, arent they using nvidia?

yes.

[djsmelly23]

how about all the new alum macbooks/pros, arent they using nvidia?

yes.

does this mean the new mbs may have problems as well? as if no fw wasnt bad enough :[

[Nanashiwanderer]

Ehh sort of. They'll work with most things. Some interfaces are bound to have problems. Presonus, Tascam, in particular. If you stick with Motu, Apogee, Metric Halo the three companies that are either Mac Only or really geared towards apple they should work.

Since, many people don't know what the Chipset does, I'll go a bit more into depth on the role of chipset. using a human body analogy. Most people think of the CPU as the brain of the computer, chipset is the spinal chord. It controls the communication between the CPU and the rest of your hardware. On Intel Core 2s there is two Chipsets a North Bridge which controlls the communication between memory, CPU, and Integrated Graphics (i7s and AMDs have memory controllers built on the CPU so they do not need a north bridge). Storage controller, communication with PCI, PCI-Express bueses are in the south bridgechipset, which control communications of relatively low bandwidth operations . NVIDIA chipsets have strong northbridge performance but their south bridge chipsets are terrible. This is what is more important for audio since most AI's will run through the south bridge, and things like UAD also communicate through southbridge.

So what are issues with NVIDIA chipsets.
1. Cooling issues, they run hot, and are less stable
2. Data Corruption is a big problem
3. Poor Storage controllers.

read fluffy turtles reply, he essentially shares my view.
http://digg.com/apple/Apple_dumping_Int ... w_MacBooks


http://www.hexus.net/content/item.php?item=14744
Foxconn isn't known for quality boards, this is what there thoughts are on the new NVIDIA desktop chipsets.

[srF]

Okay, the best deal is?

- use a firewire audio interface like apogee duet, motu traveller, etc
- buy a seagate momentus 7200 rpm, 320 GB
- put on 4 GB DDR2 667 MHz of matched RAM (two SO-DIMM´s)

and buy the real last one´s of this machines

- Intel Core 2 Duo 2,1 MHz - 3 MB L2 caché - FSB 800 MHz
- 6-pin FireWire 400
- Intel GMA X3100 144 MB SDRAM DDR2 shared with main memory
- Hard Drive Serial ATA 120 GB - 5.400 rpm (replaed)
- SuperDrive 8x (DVD±R DL, DVD±RW and CD-RW)

the questions are

- really a macbook pro, if you not make video, is not a good deal
- this machine can take advantage of 4 GB RAM? is leopard, the snow leopard...
- logic studio can handle 30 plug-ins with this configuration?
- really is not better the NEW Macbook (NVIDIA´s) White?

Thanks

[srF]

just a little post data

- the audio plug-ins uses lot of RAM, 4 GB controlled by the northbridge chipset, FSB 1066 MHz, etc
- so, if i don´t record in this machine, lots of channels (perhaps adding muliple tracks recorded in other machine, in here with duet making the overdubs, vocals, etc), with a 7200 RPM 16 MB bus Hard Disk, with the new NVIDIA Macbook White,
is better for that?

thanks again

[Nanashiwanderer]

I would answer your questions, but I do not completely understand what you are asking? You should post in full sentances and paragraphs to break down your ideas better. That is why you are not getting responses. I may sound like I'm being mean but it is not my intention. Just so you know it is actually one of our rules here.

[srF]

ok, sorry if i not too clear, my english is basic, i´m from argentina.

the issue is: for 2-track recording in logic studio with an apogee duet in 24-bit/96KHz, and up to 20 tracks mixing with several audio plug-ins

¿ is better a white macbook with the intel chipset or the new white macbook with nvidia chipset ?

i fully understand the southbridge/L2 cache role in multitrack recording, but handle several plug-ins i think is a northbridge task, when the new macbook handle better with the 1066 mhz FSB

really, i appreciate your comments, since is difficult here in south america find proper assistance for DAWs, etc
thanks, i wait your answer

srF

[davidaltemeier]

From what I've heard, you should have better compatibility with the older model. The difference in performance probably wouldn't be enough to notice...

[srF]

thanks dave, so i going to buy the new macbook white, if the performance are almost the same, because i think the use of new technology like OpenCL, a new apple standard for the snow leopard, is going to boost system performance.
i hope this new chipset work well, thanks again

[Nanashiwanderer]

what ever you get just make sure it has Firewire. Thats more important than the Chipset thing. I do think if you can get the old one with Intel Graphics, the 1066FSB is negligible. However, if you have to go search for it, don't bother.

[AlienAteMe]

Hi,

I am a student of composition and have been running Ableton 7 with a used Motu828 USB in Windows XP on a hopeless HP Notebook over the last year. Having enjoyed my first whiff of making music with computers (some dance, jazz and some experimental sound stuff), I have decided that it's time I upgrade properly. I thank everybody here who has the patience to talk about chipsets, compatibility issues, software etc. as these forums have been a valuable resource to me, even if I am not yet in a position to contribute.

I'm currently looking for a notebook-interface pairing from which I can run Ableton sets and record the occasional audio track (guitars of all sorts and some percussion); the system has to be mobile and I am aiming for capacity of minimum 20-30 tracks of mostly softsynths/samples and the occasional bit of audio with generous amount of eqs and effects. I need four inputs (perhaps two of which will be used simultaneously for recording during a performance) with preamps. I am willing to spend 5k for a good system, but for lack of understanding the issue surrounding the NVIDIA chipset in the Macbook Pro, I am unable to call whether perhaps a high-end Windows Laptop with TI chipset would be better than a Macbook Pro at the moment? Are there any viable workarounds for the NVIDIA Macbook Pro problem?

[srF]

thanks nanashi for the info, when i made the purchase, im going to post the performance, etc

[Nanashiwanderer]

@Alien Ate Me

For laptops on Windows ADK Proaudio probably is the best option and they have decent computers for 1500$. Apples Mac Book Pro is the other option.

For Laptops the Apple Mac Book White or the Mac Book Pro are the only options. The Mac Book White has Firewire and The MAc Book Pro. The Mac Book aluminum and air do not. All of Apples current laptops are on NVIDIA Chipsets including the white.

[Nanashiwanderer]

Well i'm sure it will be fine. The bigger issue with NVIDIA chipsets is not the performance but its compatibility and dependability. The NVIDIA chipsets are more prone to producing conflicts or being buggy as one might put it than Intel Chipsets.

[-=steve=-]

I have the new macbook white (with the 9400M) and it works with my presonus FP10. No problems at all here.

[AlienAteMe]

Thanks for the answers guys. But it is precisely for apple's stability and reliability that I would seek them out. The performance is available on both platforms, but the only reason I have for making the switch to apple atm is the stability. What I absolutely want to avoid is crashes and hangups when performing live or during exams... I spoke to one of the ADK guys about working around the problem and he mentioned something about Firewire through PCI Express slot, if I understood correctly, for the interface... Would this be a way to contain, as Nanashi put it in one of his post "a badly designed spinal chord"?

[Nanashiwanderer]

No it would not. Your confusing chipsets. The ADK guy was talking about avoiding a bad Firewire Chipset. If a laptop has a decent bios, and a good all in one, the two biggest hurdles around using laptops, one could negate a lack of performance in other areas by making use of the express card slot. For example if a laptop has good fundamentals but lacks Texas Instruments Firewire Chipset, one could add it using Express card. Or if laptop has a slow hard drive one could get a full speed drive by buyinga E-SATA Drive, and buying an E-SATA express card.

The motherboard chipset on a laptop can't be replaced. It connects to anything or rather eventually everything will communcate with it. To replace a motherboard chipset on a comptuer means replacing the motherboard. Their is no other way. On a laptop you cannot replace motherboards so you just replace the laptop. Hence why I am not a fan of apples move. But again NVIDIA Chipsets are just not so bad, that they can't be used for audio. Most of the major apple brands work. Keep in mind also on AMD platform NVIDIA has the best platform. That being said that still doesn't change the fact that nvidia chipsets are buggy & Sub par especially compared to Intels, and even more so on mobile devices which is Intels specialty. Its not surprising Intel has been developing Motherboard Chipsets for longer than NVIDIA as a company has existed. NVIDIA started their first chipset in late 2001.

[AlienAteMe]

Local Retail has a good offer on the Motu 896 mkiii, which I like because of the multiple preamps and the standalone mixer + effects function. Assuming this to be my interface, and Motu being an Apple friendly brand, would the motherbord issue with the Macbook Pros render my system less stable than a windows based system (TI chipset) with say an RME interface? I've tried finding an answer to this in various forums as I am shocked by the instability of running my current Motu 828 mkii USB through my non TI HP laptop.This is something I absolutely want to avoid. Any pointers/advice from experienced users would be appreciated!

And also, regardless of system, what role does amount of RAM play for the applications I mentioned?

Excuse my questions if they don't seem appropriate or are too basic/general in nature.

[Nanashiwanderer]

Its hard to say. I would ratehr a Mac Book if my system is going to be used as a laptop and audio machine. OS/X is impervious to Viruses which makes it more stable in one regards always. A Windows MAchine from say ADK Pro Audio would likely be more a better buy if it is strictly audio. Software is a big role. If your using Logic, you'd have to sue Macs.

Of course that being said I'd take RME over Motu any day. But RME's cost 2x's the price so I do not understand why you evne make the comparison. Once you get to that price point you should start considering RME v.s Metric Halo (mac only) and in that case I'd take a Metric Halo any day.

[AlienAteMe]

I'm considering RME Fireface 800 but am tending towards the Motu because I get more preamp inputs while the Metric Halos are still 500$ more than both and I can't understand why they don't have midi. The main software I'll be using is Ableton to run realtime audio sets, softsynths, and samplers with one to multiple inputs of audio which I want to record and mix live. That being said, as a music teacher, I would like to get to know logic. If I choose apple/metric halo then I wonder whether 8 gigs of ram would be overkill instead of 4, although RAM is almost ubiquitously considered a good thing, as those extra four gigs on Macbook Pro cost quite a bit. Would that be overkill for my requirements?

[Nanashiwanderer]

I don't know OS/X well enough to tell. you. On PC there is no point in getting morethan 3GB because Windows XP can't use more than 3GB. The Metric Halo is meant more than anything for a mobile recording rig. But soudn quality wise its one of two interfaces that have professional quality AD/DA conversion and fairly decent preamps. The other is the Apogee ensemble.

[AlienAteMe]

Thanks for the helpful pointers, again. What I find interesting about the Metric Halos is their DSP feature and I wonder whether this can be used to run their effects in my host sequencer (Ableton), taking a significant load off my CPU.