'Reamp'.. What exactly does it do?

[Mjolnir]

Firstly, sorry if this has been posted before, but i couldn't really find what i wanted anywhere after a search..

..secondly, sorry for this being a typical n00b question that you've probably had to answer a million times before

anyway.. a while ago i read the Total Guitar magazine featuring Andy Sneap talking about his studio, and he said something about his 'Reamp'.



I think thats the one, or something similar.

He said its really important for getting the best guitar sound possible, and that it can also eliminate stage noise

So what exactly is it? What does it do? How to you set it up?

Is it for mics when in the studio and recording guitars or for gigs when going through a P.A

..or is it something you literally put your guitar lead into:

Guitar > Reamp > Amp ?

Or do you use it as an external effects send/return on your amp?

It sounds good and helpful, but if i got one, i'd just be sitting there with no idea what to do with it at all.. not even where to put it in the chain of all the gear being used...

so can anyone enlighten me?

[mcramer]

You would use it if you've recorded a guitar directly (DI) and want to get the sound of a real amp.

Once you've recorded the guitar using DI, you can then play it back out of a balanced output on your sound card for example, into the balanced +4 input. The hi-z output then plugs into the instrument input of your amp. You could then use a microphone on the amp to record the amp sound back into your soundcard onto a separate track.

The reason you can't just plug a balanced line +4 level output of your sound card straight into the amp is because there would be an impedance mis-match.

It is basically the opposite to a DI box.

[nanashiwanderer]

You would use it if you've recorded a guitar directly (DI) and want to get the sound of a real amp.

that is self is the technique called reamping. You could potentially use it for a lot of things than just that, I'm curious to experiment some.


Basically though Mcramer's hit it on the head. A Reamp takes a line level signal and brings it to instrument level (Hi Impedance) unbalanced signal, so you could plug it into guitar amplifiers or other things that except instrument level signals (certain effects pedals).

Reamping it self is taking a clean, direct recorded guitar signal, and sending it to an amplifier, and then re-recording that signal another method, Ie microphones ect.

[mcramer]

You would use it if you've recorded a guitar directly (DI) and want to get the sound of a real amp.

that is self is the technique called reamping. You could potentially use it for a lot of things than just that, I'm curious to experiment some.

That's definitely true, i've used the re-amping part of my bass pod xt pro for alto sax lol.

It can be useful in a live recording situation. You could record both your amp mic'ed up and clean D.I. on two separate tracks. You will probably want to use either a combination of amp and DI or just amp. But what if you get home, start mixing and turns out the amp setting you used doesn't sound good on the recording? You can use the DI signal to send to the re-amp box and get a better sound out of your amp.

[jar4ever]

Also, passive DIs can operate in reverse and can be used to reamp signals.

[Farview]

Also, passive DIs can operate in reverse and can be used to reamp signals.

That really doesn't work very well. I've done both and the dedicated re-amp units are much better at it. The difference is night and day.

Remember, a normal passive DI is made to take a line level high imedance signal and change it to low impedance balanced mic level. The opposite of that would be taking a balanced low impedance mic level signal and turn it into a high impedance unbalanced line level signal.

What you are trying to do is take a balanced line level signal and turn it into an unbalanced guitar level signal. (with all the impedance issues worked out)

It's two different things.

[mcramer]

Remember, a normal passive DI is made to take a line level high impedance signal and change it to low impedance balanced mic level. The opposite of that would be taking a balanced low impedance mic level signal and turn it into a high impedance unbalanced line level signal.

I'm pretty sure passive D.I. boxes in normal operation never see line level signals, only mic level signals. I'll assume you got your words muddled

In theory it should work, all it would take is using the transformer in reverse, but would the rest of the circuity in a d.i. box even allow this?

[Farview]

Remember, a normal passive DI is made to take a line level high impedance signal and change it to low impedance balanced mic level. The opposite of that would be taking a balanced low impedance mic level signal and turn it into a high impedance unbalanced line level signal.

I'm pretty sure passive D.I. boxes in normal operation never see line level signals, only mic level signals. I'll assume you got your words muddled

In theory it should work, all it would take is using the transformer in reverse, but would the rest of the circuity in a d.i. box even allow this?

Why would you plug a mic level signal into the unbalanced input of a DI box? If it was mic level, you wouldn't need the DI.

In normal operation, you would use a DI to (for example) hook a keyboard into a snake to get to the mic preamp of the board.

[Weasel9992]

Farview is 150% right. DI's are designed to take an unbalanced line level signal and convert it to balanced mic level. If you're already operating at balanced mic level, you don't need one.

The reason you don't usually load unbalanced 1/4" connectors into floorbox plates or snakes is that you don't want to send an unbalanced signal all the way from the stage to the console (or from a vocal booth into your console), then into a line in...it brings all kinds of interference issues into play. Instead, you use a DI to balance it, then use an XLR in all the way to the console...the signal stays balanced the whole way.

Weez

[mcramer]

Sorry i swear i had posted after farview. No, a DI box doesn't touch line level signals. Line level signals are created after the original mic or instrument level is boosted by a pre-amp. I said mic level, not mic signal. Before a guitar, bass, or mic is boosted by a pre-amp, it isn't line level, whether it is balanced or not. Before it is boosted by a pre-amp, it is at instrument/mic level, not line level.

The other reason you use a D.I. box with guitars/basses is to change the impedence from high (guitar/bass) to low (mic), so that it can be plugged straight into the mixer. You can't plug a guitar/bass straight into a mixer. Not just because the signal is unbalanced, but because the impedance is too high. Impedance has nothing to do with the strength of the signal, nor does balanced/un-balanced signals.

I'm not trying to get into an argument over it, just trying to clarify what i meant by mic level signals.

[mcramer]

then into a line in...

When would you ever plug a guitar/bass straight into a line-in? even if it had been through a d.i. box it still needs pre-amping

[Farview]

Sorry i swear i had posted after farview. No, a DI box doesn't touch line level signals.

If we are talking about passive DI's, yes it does. That's what they are designed for. A transformer can't lower the impedance of a signal without lowering the signal, I believe the transformer in a passive DI is a 20/1 transformer. If you started out with a mic level signal, it would be 20 times quieter coming out of the other end of the DI.

Line level signals are created after the original mic or instrument level is boosted by a pre-amp.

If it's already line level, no boost is needed

I said mic level, not mic signal. Before a guitar, bass, or mic is boosted by a pre-amp, it isn't line level, whether it is balanced or not. Before it is boosted by a pre-amp, it is at instrument/mic level, not line level.

Instrument level(as if there were a standard, which there isn't) is not mic level.

The other reason you use a D.I. box with guitars/basses is to change the impedence from high (guitar/bass) to low (mic), so that it can be plugged straight into the mixer. You can't plug a guitar/bass straight into a mixer. Not just because the signal is unbalanced, but because the impedance is too high. Impedance has nothing to do with the strength of the signal, nor does balanced/un-balanced signals.

When you change the impedance with a passive circuit, you change the level. There is no way around that with a passive circuit. An unforunate side effect is that passive electronics in a guitar or bass will see a different load than it wants to, which will also affect the signal level. This is the main reason why you want to use active DI's with passive instruments.

I really don't know why there is so much confusion. Passive DI's are designed to take line level signals from keyboards, submixers, Instruments with active circuitry (i.e. EMG's and active basses), line outputs of bass amps, etc... and balance them to send down a snake to the mic pre of a mixer. Active DI's are designed to not load down the passive pickups in in guitars and basses.

[mcramer]

Sorry i was only talking about when using d.i. units with guitars/basses rather than keyboards and sources which are already at line level.

And yeah i see what you're saying now, seems like i was confused slightly.

I still had no idea bass/guitars with active pickups and electronics output line level signals I could swear my bass needs pre-amping and it has EMG active pickups!

[Farview]

I still had no idea bass/guitars with active pickups and electronics output line level signals I could swear my bass needs pre-amping and it has EMG active pickups!

They don't put out line level signals (they can, but not for the most part) but the put out a much stronger signal than mic does.

It seems like you think that there are only two possible signal levels: mic and line. This is clearly not the case, an SM7 needs 55db of gain to get a vocal to line level where as a CAD E-100 will only need 10db of gain. They both put out 'mic level'.

[mcramer]

Lol no i don't think that, i have enough gain and volumes knobs in my setup to tell you that! hehe.

I just thought instruments (guitar/bass) put out a similar level to a microphone but guess i was wrong, cheers for clarifying.

[Shadowing]

Cause of this thread I had to go pull out my bass guitar amp book, hehe

My Bass guitar amp has a Line out in the back of it. Which is a Balanced XRL jack, It also has a ground lift in the back of it.


I have this running straight into the line in on my Mackie mixer, is that right or wrong?


Also for my studio, we all play live sound and I record everyone in there own tracks. I have to mic there guitar amps for recording and I use the dI's on the back of my guitar amps for live sound. In which sounds good.

But they like to bring there own guitar amps, and there amps have Speaker outs in the back of them.

The DI I own is a BBE 100x which is an Acitive DI. It has a -15 Pad on it.
Since speaker outs have to be reduced by -30db, is it possiable to use the -15 pad and then use -15 gain reduction on my mixer line in channel to get the signal to line level? Or do I have to buy DI's that take the signal from speaker out to line out before it hits my mixer

I"m still confused on what active is and passive

Acitve takes a unbalanced signal Hi indenpendence and transfers it to a low indempendence balance signal?

And a passive does what?


Acitve and passive has nothing to do with the fact of it having a thru out on it right? all DI"s have that right? so you can plug your guitar into it and have it go back into your guitar amp.


Thanks in advance for answering these question I have.



John

[Farview]

Cause of this thread I had to go pull out my bass guitar amp book, hehe

My Bass guitar amp has a Line out in the back of it. Which is a Balanced XRL jack, It also has a ground lift in the back of it.


I have this running straight into the line in on my Mackie mixer, is that right or wrong?

This is right.

But they like to bring there own guitar amps, and there amps have Speaker outs in the back of them.

The DI I own is a BBE 100x which is an Acitive DI. It has a -15 Pad on it.
Since speaker outs have to be reduced by -30db, is it possiable to use the -15 pad and then use -15 gain reduction on my mixer line in channel to get the signal to line level? Or do I have to buy DI's that take the signal from speaker out to line out before it hits my mixer

You can't use an active DI on a speaker output, you will smoke it. You shouldn't use a DI on a speaker output unless it was specifically designed for that use AND it isn't a tube amp. A DI box will affect the impedance that the amp sees and output transformers don't like that.

I"m still confused on what active is and passive

Acitve takes a unbalanced signal Hi indenpendence and transfers it to a low indempendence balance signal?

And a passive does what?

They both perform the same duties, an active DI does it with active circuitry (requires a battery or phantom power) and a passive DI just has a transformer (which is a passive device)

Acitve and passive has nothing to do with the fact of it having a thru out on it right? all DI"s have that right? so you can plug your guitar into it and have it go back into your guitar amp.

They both do the same thing.

[Shadowing]

Jeeze they really need to detail things out in manuals and on websites

All they had to say is eletricaly active/passive lol

I mean passive and active can mean alot of stuff, Eq's, signal routing, in this case rather it requires power or not. Crazy

Thanks a bunch Farview,


John

[Big Tim]

To be fair, if you know enough to know you need one, then you should either know how to use it already or be able to learn from the provided manual. It's a fairly basic bit of kit and 5 minutes with the included Book of Words should be enough to set you on your way. There's plenty of web- and book-based resources to find out more if necessary!

[Shadowing]

Ya I knew how to use it, I wasnt saying I didnt know how to use it.

It just didnt explain what bypass and active is since,, what I bought was an active one.

so they wouldnt mention anything about bypass Di's since the manual I have is on a Active one.

I would have to come to a place like tweaks lab to seek such an answer.

Sorry if that seem unclear




John

[Farview]

Not to bust your chops, it's passive, not bypass.

You also bought a goofy DI as it has a sonic maximizer built in. So that is probably blurring your idea of what a DI really is/does.


A di just takes a high impedance signal and turns it into a low impedance signal while attenuating it. There are two ways to do it 1. active op-amps 2. passive transformer (in your case 3. op-amps and a couple bbe suck knobs stuck on for good measure)

[Shadowing]

HaHa

Ya, I dont even like the maximizer

I bought a bbe maximizer for my rack and I dont even use it anymore, waste of money.

I can do what the maximizer does with eq's and it sounds better.



John

[Farview]

Not to bust your chops, it's passive, not bypass.

You also bought a goofy DI as it has a sonic maximizer built in. So that is probably blurring your idea of what a DI really is/does.

A di just takes a high impedance signal and turns it into a low impedance signal while attenuating it. There are two ways to do it 1. active op-amps 2. passive transformer (in your case 3. transformer and a couple bbe suck knobs stuck on for good measure)

[Jack Q]

Back to that "Re-amp" device mentioned in the first post:

I have a MOTU Traveler connnected to my MacBook Pro laptop. I am looking into the RADIAL X-amp re-amp device which has a Balanced LINE LEVEL XLR input connector.
Would this Balanced LINE LEVEL XLR input connector be connected to one of the mic preamps on my MOTU traveler using a Mic cable, or would I need some type of quarter-inch adaptor to connect the mic cable to my MOTU preamps, or is there some other way? This is all a little confusing.
Thanks for the help.

[mcramer]

You DONT connect this device to your pre-amps. This device would take the line-output from your traveler. Plug a 1/4" balanced TRS cable into one of the line-outputs and into the balanced input of the re-amp box.