Logic 8 questions

[jasonb]

hi, i do have a thread about Cubase vs. Logic, but since these are specific Logic questions i thought i'd start a new thread (some Logic users may not have Cubase experience and thus may not look at my old comparison thread). hope that's ok.

does Logic 8...

1. have unlimted un-do? if not, how far back can you un-do renderings and edits?
2. is there a "stacked takes" feature to make easy composite recordings (like combining bits and pieces of different guitar-solo takes)? or something similar?
3. how happy are you with the internal effects, like compression, EQ, etc?
4. is it a paper or PDF manual? how comprehensive and easy to understand is the manual?
5. how good is the Logic customer support?
6. relative to the entire sequencer world, how "buggy" is Logic? is it easy to download updates?

that's a lot to answer, i know. thanks kindly.

[tgfoo]

1) Actually, I'm not sure. I've never really tested this in Logic 8, the most I've had to undo was 5 or 6 steps.

2)Yes, it does this.

3) Very Happy. Best set of plug-ins that come with any sequencer. Thus far I haven't needed to replace then with 3rd party plugs for what I do.

4)Both. It comes with 2 huge manuals (a 1000 page for Logic 8 and a 600+ page manual for the instrument and effects plug-ins). Very comprehensive and you can access the pdf version from the help menu in Logic.

5)I've never gone to Apple for Logic help, however, there are 4 or 5 forums that are either deticated to Logic or have a large deticated Logic section where you can get help with most any problem.

6) I don't find Logic 8 to be very buggy. Obviously it has it's bugs, but no really major ones for me. Surprising less that I expected from it's initial release. And it's definitely less buggy that Cubase (expecially if you're on a Mac).

Hope that helps some.

[jasonb]

thanks, tgfoo.

that edged me closer to switching to Logic/Mac from Cubase/PC.

i think the few extra bucks (i was gonna buy a new system and a new SX sometime, and a new soundcard anyway) will be worth it.

my drum app, Jamstix, is the only sticking part -- it's not Mac compatible (will be sometime in the future, they say) but there are Mac Jamstix users who use it -- one guy used "Bootcamp" and created a partition. i don't know what this is technically, but i understand that Intel-chip Macs have the capability to run PC software. hope that's not a big deal or requires much technical expertise (two things i lack).

thank you. once i pay off my USA Soloist, methinks i take out a brand-spankin' new line of credit and go Mac.

it will probably be worth the cost alone just to say goodbye forever to Steinberg. no i'm not bitter.

cheers.

[jsepeta]

Since Logic 6, the bundled effects were much better than any other DAW available. I've owned Logic since Platinum 5.x or so, and the reverbs and eq's and compressors stomp all over Cubase. With Cubase SX3 and 4, the bundled reverbs are better than before and the eq and compressors (especially multi-compressor) finally reach where logic is. but Space designer still rocks over Cubase's reverbs. Have not played with Logic 8's delay designer, but I assume it's top-flight since it's roots are from apple's video editing/film scoring group.

as for the bundled instruments, Cubase and Sonar and DP are quite lacking compared to Logic, especially now that the entire suite is only $500. If I were starting out, I wouldn't even be looking at the competition.

[Spy!]

my drum app, Jamstix, is the only sticking part -- it's not Mac compatible (will be sometime in the future, they say) but there are Mac Jamstix users who use it -- one guy used "Bootcamp" and created a partition. i don't know what this is technically, but i understand that Intel-chip Macs have the capability to run PC software. hope that's not a big deal or requires much technical expertise (two things i lack).

Yes the new macs can run OSX and XP (not sure about Vista) but not at the same time, therefore if you wanted to continue to use Jamstix (or any other PC only app.) you'd need to save your work as a .wav (or .aif) and transfer it to Logic to continue with the project/song.

Thus, you'll need at least one extra drive that is accessible (and readable) by both boot partitions where you can store the wav/aif files. This drive needn't necessarily be internal or even a conventional hard drive as long as it's large enough to store the files you need to transfer.

HTH

[tristancook]

I have been using Sonar for about 2.5 years and it was the first Professional Level Sequencer I purchased (before I had used Audition/Cool Edit, Cubase LE, Audacity, Kristal and a few others to play around in different applications.)

I took a production class that used Logic Express 7, and just hated the workflow and environment- as I was head over heals in love with sonar.

I bought Logic 8.... I will never again record to my PC.

The only thing I miss is one plugin, (The tape simulation plugin) which really warmed up my mixes, and surprisingly sounds like an almost overly warm tube preamp.

But the workflow and layout in Logic 8 is phenomenal. Everything is efficiently placed, and easily accesible.

I almost barely even need to use Reason because alot of the sounds and instruments I may need are right there (of course I'll stick to using Reason Drum Kits, and a few other specialized refills.)

Logic will take some getting used to (coming from a PC and Cubase) but once you get over that learning curve, you won't look back.

[jasonb]

thanks muchly, all above.

hear that, hear that? that's the sound of Steinberg's as$ hitting the curb outside my home.



i'm very excited. perhaps this is kinda like growing tired of a person you've dated for years thinking the grass is greener with her over there, but i have a feeling once you go Mac you won't go back.

cheers.

p.s. any tape-sim plugins for Logic? i can't believe that they would be exclusive to certain sequencers.

[G-Dub]

Logic Pro has Ultra Beat drum synth/sample player.

And there are also several drum kits included with the EXS24 sampler.
check out the vids at the apple site.

[Travis Coats]

Logic over Cubase? I have been experimenting with Logic 8 for a while, and I am still unimpressed with it as compared to Cubase4 on my Mac Pro. The audio plug-ins are more abundant, the instruments are...okay, but not as abundant as I thought. You have to make a lot of what you will use in this one, using their instruments as a template for the beginner.

In terms of MIDI sequencing and ease of use and speed. Cubase hands down IMO. The window layout in cubase allows for simulataneous and "unclustered" views on one monitor as compared to logics opening panels which take more from the screen real estate, and make you "dig" more to do simple alterations. I only ever have to open like 4 windows in Cubase aside from the main arrangement window (which is the only thing you see other than the collapsable overhead and left hand sidebar).

My composing time has went from short to extremely long and tedious to the point that I almost want to throw those large a$$ manuals, which hardly ever answer my question, out the window. I would have much rather ought Reason 4 and used it as a rewire through Cubase. This is all my opinion though, hopefully you have better experience.

[G-Dub]

Logic over Cubase? I have been experimenting with Logic 8 for a while, and I am still unimpressed with it as compared to Cubase4 on my Mac Pro. The audio plug-ins are more abundant, the instruments are...okay, but not as abundant as I thought. You have to make a lot of what you will use in this one, using their instruments as a template for the beginner.

In terms of MIDI sequencing and ease of use and speed. Cubase hands down IMO. The window layout in cubase allows for simulataneous and "unclustered" views on one monitor as compared to logics opening panels which take more from the screen real estate, and make you "dig" more to do simple alterations. I only ever have to open like 4 windows in Cubase aside from the main arrangement window (which is the only thing you see other than the collapsable overhead and left hand sidebar).

My composing time has went from short to extremely long and tedious to the point that I almost want to throw those large a$$ manuals, which hardly ever answer my question, out the window. I would have much rather ought Reason 4 and used it as a rewire through Cubase. This is all my opinion though, hopefully you have better experience.

I had to give up Cubase due to it's poor CPU performance on Mac, from my experience apps like Logic and DP can use 40%-60% more instances of virtual instruments and effects vs Cubase.

Plus the lack of quality control of their updates causeed me to loose money.

[Travis Coats]

I don't know anything about the professional roles that these could differ in quality. I can get 20 instances (VST) on my Intel Mac all of them are Komplete 4 apps, maybe like 4 Absynth instances, 5 FM8's, 1 Kontakt ( I use about 7 channels), and a whole lot of Battery and pro53. I don't use much as compared to big name studio producers/engineers, but I never get over the 10% line on the Mac Pro with all the above.

Even with a whole bunch of inserts on my audio channels (mainly roomworks se and spektral delay/vokoder) I still get good performance (still well below 20%). I have noticed a big difference in response with the Komplete apps in a audio unit environment. I am assuming it is because there is no translation needed to interact with core audio.

I have never gotten over 20 % with all of the projects I have made. I never have an issue with VST instrument live performance from my separate hard drive. I am sure that a lot of this has to do with the power of these new Macs...but Logic is killing me. I just don't like the interface. They could have done much better. I like how Sonar and Cubase have their track lanes set up. It is very easy to adjust real time automation and see it graphically along the bottom of your tracks, whereas in Logic the hypereditor is it's own collapsible panel aside from the piano roll. Even the hyperdraw (they have a market on this hyper thing) is a collapsible menu of a collapsible menu.

I have also seen elsewhere on the boards the response of how one can use Cubase and refer to the manual only once or twice in a month, whereas with Logic one can find themselves reading for a multidude of time just to customize it to get it the way you want. I have yet to change Cubase's default layout.

I think to each their own, but man...what is with this piano roll editor. Can someone bring light into the processes that the designer were using to develop it? Not intuitive at all...sorry....

But hey, more choices is better.

[shlomada]

The speed at which you can get things done in a DAW is up to the user, not the DAW. If you set up your quick keys all this stuff you mentioned is irrelevant. Just hit the key and move forward. What you are talking about has to do with learning curve, and in my opinion once you get past the learning curve all the things that slowed you down at first should now be worked out. Logic can be operated just as quickly and logically as cubase once you learn it.

Logic is harder to learn ( or at least used to be), but once it is learned that is it all done no more headache. That is why I have never understood this debate. It is like somone used logic for 2 days and decided it was to hard and gave up. It took me 2 weeks to learn cubase and 6 weeks to learn logic. Logic works so much better on a mac once you get the enviornment and quick keys down. I mean how mcuh does it matter how easy the DAW is to use after learning how to do everything in it. Once you learn it that whole how do you do that quickly is just no longer important.

It usually equals out after the learning curve. Oh well maybe I am just looking at it the wrong way, I just never thought logic was that difficult or cryptic to use. just read the manual and buy a book on the enviornment and that's it, all the info you need. I myself just never add in ease of use to a DAW becuase they are all easy to use once you learn them, to me CPU and low latency performance is the most important thing

[Travis Coats]

Not really, Logic's CPU usage is surprisingly higher than Cubase on my Mac Pro, and Cubase projects can have anywhere up to 30 tracks and be well below 20%. Logic has only 10-12 and I am already over that. Latency....nothing noticeable on either. Simplicity...(without the need for hotkeys or the need to learn them)..Cubase. Export speed and variety of export options...Cubase. Plug-ins and soft-synth bundles....Logic. Good to go once you start the program up....Cubase.

Of course you can think what you will, but this is how I see it.