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One for the "I only have crappy gear" crowd...

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One for the "I only have crappy gear" crowd...

Postby MASSIVE Mastering on Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:11 am

I've posted this on a few forums, as I think it's something that really needs to be addressed. It was inspired by an MP3 I heard on an audio forum - A track by a guy with crappy, outdated 16-bit digital gear with old converters and cheap microphones - but really good core sounds. A nice sounding guitar, a great sounding amp with great sound coming from the amp.

So here's something for the "I only have crappy gear" crowd...

Listen to this file - It's classical - Don't be afraid, it's actually pretty heavy (for classical). And don't scroll down too fast...

http://www.massivemastering.com/special ... ssical.mp3

It's just a short snippet of an orchestral rehearsal I recorded recently...

Crank it up loud - It won't bite... It's only over a minute, so hit "repeat" so it can sink in nicely.

Listen to the clarity in the strings and the winds from the start...

Notice the build at 0:12 at that culminates at 0:22

Now listen to those glorious horn swells... Good Lord, if those don't give you goosebumps, your epidermis isn't working. You can feel the brass against your face (even though they're 40 feet from the mics).

(Now ignore the french horn blurt at 0:44)

Listen to the clarity in the soundstage from around 0:43 - the horns, the strings, the timpani - You can literally close your eyes and point to them - The french horns on one side, the trumps & bones toward the center, the tuba off to the other side... Startling, isn't it... Not the greatest recording in the world, but there are clear highs, clear mids, clear lows, good imaging, great musician-controlled dynamics, all that neat stuff.

What's my point? First, read the gear list...




















2 Okatava 012's (16 feet high, spaced 8 feet apart, shooting straight down at the far downstage row of strings) through around 250 feet (each) of balanced cable to:

1 $99 Behringer Ultragain Pro MIC-2200 preamp fed UNBALANCED through Radio Shack quality cables into:

1994(?) first-generation Sony MD recorder with horrendous converters - unbalanced I/O.

Then, it went through my chain here for a whisker of minor sweetening and a little verb (it's a VERY dry stage) just for fun. Keep in mind the volume boost (nearly 20dB!) just to get it up to a decent level (it went in unbalanced) and the added noise involved - Not a big issue, is it...







But my chain isn't the point - This is a fairly solid recording made with garbage for gear. Sure, the post-production brought out some potential, but it's the recording that had the potential in the first place. The recording had that potential from the sound being created on the stage and no where else.

This recording (and all "good" or better recordings, IMO) demonstrates the only real "rules" in audio... "Garbage in = garbage out" and the obvious point of the importance of your core sounds. These guys sounded good and played well. Cheap, crappy gear picked this up just fine. Would it have sounded better with $3,000 Nuemanns going through some really great preamps? Of course it would.

But on first listen, would you ever expect the tracking chain of this recording to total $300?

Is gear unimportant? Certainly not. Dad always said "Get the best you can afford and if you can afford it, get The Best. Then, you can't [b*tch] about it later."

But there are a lot of (mostly home) engineers out there that are copping out on their recordings because of their "crappy" gear. Buying (or cracking) loads and loads of plugins, programs, pee-wee-hermanizers and more, trying to get their recordings to sound "more pro" while their completely ignoring the CORE SOUND.

A cheesy guitar through a cheesy amp with a cheesy tone is going to sound cheesy whether it's recorded through a Behringer or a Neve preamp. A crappy bass with old strings is going to sound bad no matter what it's recorded through - A mic'd amp, a direct box, a $5,000 compressor, etc.

On the flipside, a great guitar tone is hard to screw up - with a 57 or a U87, it's going to sound pretty good. THAT's where all the extras come in - THAT's where you choose the "flavor" you're looking for - Not after you record a crappy sounding instrument and expect to be able to fix it later.

The moral to the story - Of course, use the best gear you can. Great gear is a wonderful thing. In some areas, only the best will do. HOWEVER, don't forget the gear BEFORE the microphones and the preamps. Experiment - Open some new doors - Change your strings and your drum heads - Get someone in who *truly* knows how to tune drums properly and pay attention to everything - Especially what a properly tuned kit sounds like in the room.

Get your core sounds *too good* for your cheap gear to handle. THEN figure out what you need. If it's some sort of Sonic Disgronificator, your sound probably isn't ready for really great recording gear yet. Spend time learning what good sound really sounds like at the source, and work from there.

You'll probably find that some of that "crappy" recording gear isn't so crappy after all... :)
Last edited by MASSIVE Mastering on Wed Jun 08, 2005 2:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby kernmount on Tue Jun 07, 2005 2:34 am

Excellent stuff. Wonderful post.

The best guitar tone I ever got was with my Red Knob Twin going direct into the inputs of my trusty old Tascam 246. I also had an sm57 mic'ing the front of the cabinet. I have never been able to reproduce that sound since 1994. I've come close, but no cigar.

The funny thing is I had no idea how good the tone was. I mean I liked it, but I had no idea that I'd spend my time, some 10 years later, furiously trying to find that tone again in the virtual digital world.

Moral? Don't obsess about your gear. If you can make it sound great on an old tape player, it will sound great on 48 tracks of Cubase.
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Postby Blue Bear Sound on Tue Jun 07, 2005 6:22 am

Great post, John.... all the more proof that it's the engineer, NOT the gear!
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Postby axeman69 on Tue Jun 07, 2005 7:17 am

This iterates my point in a previous thread that performance, arrangement and engineering skills are way way more important than the mic pre of the week.

Great post. Thanks.
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Postby km2783 on Tue Jun 07, 2005 5:47 pm

excellent post.

I really can't add anything more to it. But perhaps it should be a sticky in the Production forum :) not specifically about production, but it certainly pertains to it, and something like this does not need to fade to the nether-pages of the forum.
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Postby Tweak on Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:34 am

Topic has a new home and is now a sticky. Great post, John, thanks!

ps can't connect to your site right now..
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Postby MediaMonster on Wed Jun 08, 2005 1:31 pm

Great truths only become self-evident once someone has courage to speak them aloud.

I am a perfect example.

I used to spend an hour or 2 recording and then tens of hours at the mixer trying everything to make what I had just recorded sound less like crap than it really did.

Now, I don't let the drummer start recording his part for at least 2 hours while I mic and re-mic the kit. Moving mics an inch here of there until I have a great sounding kit that I know will fit in my mix. Then, mixing is a breeze because I have to do just enough to get out of the way an excellent recording. And it only took me 25+ years to learn that trick.

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Rule #4 - Do as little as you can to screw up that great recording that you just made.
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Postby MASSIVE Mastering on Wed Jun 08, 2005 3:22 pm

That's beautiful, man. :mrgreen:
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Postby Blue Bear Sound on Wed Jun 08, 2005 4:10 pm

MediaMonster wrote:Now, I don't let the drummer start recording his part for at least 2 hours while I mic and re-mic the kit.

I also don't let drummers go swimming until 20 minutes after they eat! :wink: :wink:

(sorry, I just HAD to!)
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Postby Tweak on Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:56 pm

Finally heard the mp3. Nice recording! That's a pretty tight orchestra too. Amazing that the horns came out so perfect and the staging came through too. Really does illumine what 2 well placed mics can do, especially Octava 012s, which for those that don't know are $100 small condenser mics.

So John, do you get to record orchestras a lot?
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Postby MASSIVE Mastering on Thu Jun 09, 2005 12:24 am

More than I'd actually like to. It's cool, though... A lot of it is archival stuff - As long as it's "audible" they don't give much of a hoot. So, the experimentation / chops ratio is very high. Whatever mics, preamps, recording media, channels... My stuff, their stuff...

One thing that's on the list is doing a direct to DSD recording with the DV-RA1000... But believe it or not, I don't own a decent set of analog preamps. My latest "normal rig" is a pair of M-Audio Solaris mics (God, I love those things...) into an Apogee MiniME straight into a Masterlink. Hey, I'm a mastering guy - I'm lucky to even have a set of my own preamps, right? Until the DV-RA1000 came out, I never missed not having a stereo preamp with an analog out...

The only analog preamps lying around are the consoles (Mackie, A&H's, etc.) and that Behringer set. Not exactly what I'd want to use for a DSD experiment...

One of these days I should rack up a pair of Rane MS1b's or something...
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Postby mcatalao on Sun Aug 21, 2005 4:05 pm

MASSIVE Mastering wrote:More than I'd actually like to. It's cool, though...


Well, you may not like it but you made it sound great.

I totally agree with you. You can do great things with the simpler tools if you USE them well, and if you have good material to work on...

My question at this stage is, what is the role of the producer really???

I think sometimes he has to say, "let's go to the studio again, let's do this again. We have to re-arrange this..."

Good post MM.
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Postby Trumpet_Player on Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:11 pm

Blue Bear Sound wrote:Great post, John.... all the more proof that it's the engineer, NOT the gear!

Or quality musicians putting out great stuff from good instruments.
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Postby Blue Bear Sound on Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:47 pm

Trumpet_Player wrote:
Blue Bear Sound wrote:Great post, John.... all the more proof that it's the engineer, NOT the gear!

Or quality musicians putting out great stuff from good instruments.

That goes without saying... it all starts with the source!
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Postby neilfein on Tue May 23, 2006 1:22 pm

MediaMonster wrote:Rule #1 - Make it sound great in the room
Rule #2 - Place the mic(s) to capture the sound that you hear in the room
Rule #3 - Capture that magical moment of inspired performance
Rule #4 - Do as little as you can to screw up that great recording that you just made.


I think I must put this on the wall of my home studio. It's far too easy to forget the front end of the process.
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Postby thursday on Thu Jul 27, 2006 11:01 pm

it all starts at the source. unfortunately, some of us gave away great equipment for next to nothing because they were bored, got married, or traded it for the flavor of the month. BTW is nu-metal dead yet?
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Postby sethmeister on Tue Aug 15, 2006 2:03 pm

Blue Bear Sound wrote:
MediaMonster wrote:Now, I don't let the drummer start recording his part for at least 2 hours while I mic and re-mic the kit.

I also don't let drummers go swimming until 20 minutes after they eat! :wink: :wink:

(sorry, I just HAD to!)


You shouldn't let the drummer go swimming EVER unless he's got on waterwings and a football helmet! :P



That reminds me; why did the guitarist put drumsticks on his dashboard?

:o
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Postby kcinator on Fri Aug 25, 2006 3:04 pm

idn why?
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Postby Rick Levine on Sun Sep 03, 2006 10:59 am

sethmeister wrote:You shouldn't let the drummer go swimming EVER unless he's got on waterwings and a football helmet!

I tried that and I almost drowned! Football helmets are heavy you [person who understands things differently]! Luckily my daughter had the insight to lift my face out of the puddle.

I thought there was supposed to be GOOD advice on this site!
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Postby sethmeister on Sun Sep 03, 2006 6:30 pm

kcinator wrote:idn why?


So he could park in the handicapped space!!


:P :lol:
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Postby Kaje on Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:06 pm

Crickey the proof is indeed in the pudding, great post John.
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Re: One for the "I only have crappy gear" crowd...

Postby Rick Levine on Sun Sep 03, 2006 7:41 pm

I went off on a tangent, but I'd really like to know who the composer is. This snippet kicks.
MASSIVE Mastering wrote:Now ignore the french horn blurt at 0:44

I'm voting it was a grace note.
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Re: One for the "I only have crappy gear" crowd...

Postby MASSIVE Mastering on Sun Sep 03, 2006 8:55 pm

Rick Levine wrote:I went off on a tangent, but I'd really like to know who the composer is. This snippet kicks.
MASSIVE Mastering wrote:Now ignore the french horn blurt at 0:44

I'm voting it was a grace note.

Q. What's the difference between a French Horn and a trampoline?





A. Most people take their shoes off before jumping up and down on a trampoline.
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Thanks

Postby DonJ on Fri Nov 17, 2006 10:52 am

There is a reality check... All the the technology in the world and cool toys can't make me sound good?!!!!!!

OK I quit..

J/K... And by the way, can I really use my drumsticks to get the parking space? That is Great!

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Postby snakepimp on Sat Mar 31, 2007 1:46 am

This is the post that really confirms that I like this place.

lol @ handicapped/drummer joke, and especially french horn joke. (I played one of those dastardly things in middle school, blechh.)

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