FXpansion GURU vs Stylus RMX?:non drummers nightmare

[earthloop]

Hi all!

My question is as the topic title suggests...Guru or Stylus RMX?


So...what do you guys think? I can get GURU for AU $250 as against Stylus RMX AU $440 . Now I know they are different types of app. but as a drum newbie it is hard to assess my needs...especially when there is no demo of Stylus available to compare,

The price diff. is enough to make me a bit confused. Some reports suggest that stylus sounds better? Whilst I am into dance'nTrance etc...I DO like lots of other styles of music, so a 'broad palette of sounds would be good.

So...advice welcomed on this.

Cheers,
N.

[earthloop]

well thanks for all that great advice everyone!!!!!

As I now have no better idea about what to get than before, I have applied the YGWYPF principle (you get what you pay for) and I have bought Stylus RMX in the hope that I am buying in to an expandable 'system' (with the expanders etc) which will make it easier for a non drummer to create rhythm tracks for original songs.

I am still panicking because it alone cost almost half the price of the Korg Karma I would have liked to have bid on at Ebay...just to put things in to perspective!

[Word2Burger]

Wow.... this is my first post

These programs are the non-drummers saving grace

First off i have both of these apps and they are great. I started with stylus.

Stylus is wicked cause you have so many patterns to choose from to make a track and you can create you own combinations just specific pieces i.e. Choosing your hihats/kicks/snares yadayada which is great for awhile.. but then you get the sense of being restricted to your library.. and althought it is quite a vast set of sounds.. i longed for something more.. then i started to use Stylus and a controller which was great... Some patches just have great drums so you could connect a controller and play the individual parts of the patch and create your own drum loop via midi.. Loved that alot!! a little time consuming but thats cause my setup isn't made for midi. All in all i love Stylus its a great program you can get alot of ideas using it and the Expansions (though i havent gotten any myself) seem quite vast!

Guru. I finally was able to get this program and though i love Stylus i have not returned to it since. There is just something about how quickly you can create a drum pattern with guru that i love.. Now keep in mind it's mainly Pop/R&B/HipHop/Dance/Downtempo... hell everything but rock really.. although i think if you get creative enough you can do that too. The library of sounds is pretty big aswell. With guru you can use multiple engines to create gigantic layers or stuff... (not that you'd want to but you could) to a maximum of 96 sounds if you really wanted.. and if your computer could handle it.. (and if it could well i'm quite jealous ) There's a simplicity to Guru that is lovely.. you simply scroll through sounds then add it to whichever pad you want to choose.. and if you use a premade pattern (which i haven't done yet) you can simply swap out the sounds you don't like with sounds you prefer. This program still makes me drool in wonder.

So all in all i'd say they are both great programs. Love them. Stylus has more sounds from what i can tell and the expansions seem really great. On the flipside.. you can't run stylus as a standalone program (to my knowledge) however you can with guru. That being said aswell yes guru does not have as big a sound library (3.5gigs vs. 7+gigs of stylus) however from a tech/mastering/anal sound quality afficianado Guru wins in the fact that it uses wavs... uncompressed wavs.. and ebay is filled with sample cds. The rx format that stylus uses when you import wavs actually compresses the audio slightly.. now that may not be a big deal and i personally could careless cause Stylus sounds great.. however rex files are compressed. I think they both are great and right now Guru's my personal fav.. however i can see myself using both of them in the future anyhow.. hope this gives some more insight.. i know you purchase Stylus already and don't worry you didn't make a bad choice at all it is great. Guru to me is basically and MPC in the computer and i've always vowed i won't get an MPC because of it's sound and everyone and their mom has it.. (not that thats bad) however.. i'm happies with Guru.. no disc bs to worry about

Lemme know if this helped any, easy.

Word2Burger!!

[earthloop]

Thanks for that word2burger! Sorry for the long delay in replying but I have had a couple of problems to deal with...one of them being Spectrasonics. (and the Australian distributor)

I thought I was getting version 1.5 in the box (I actually asked the local distributor and was told that "version 1.5 was coming in the next shipment" ...which I waited for before I purchased, but it turned out to be version 1.1 then you have to go download these humungous upgrade files (which I can't do because of download limitations) so now I have to fork out another US $20 plus postage for the upgrade DVD which includes the video tutorials (important as there is no printed manual)...this will end up close to $45 Aus. which I had not budgeted for.

I generally get educational versions of software as I can't afford the full prices generally...but I thought this app would cover all my drum needs.

This is where my beef with Spectrasonics comes in (and some doubts about software in general)

After reading your brief review I went and listened to the demos of RMX at Spectrasonics and I was rather underwhelmed.......the sound was compressed, even muddy in some instances...the drum sounds in most of the demos struggled in the mix.

I really think that for such expensive software (and for a plug in instrument it is expensive) ...there should be a demo to try out like practically everyone else who sells music software (except Steinberg .

I was actually unaware of the file format used...they don't make this very obvious...and I havn't seen this mentioned on forums.

I am disappointed with the whole process as I struggle to raise enough money to try to cover the main musical bases (melody, harmony and rhythm). I can't keep on buying music software as I have other needs (disability issues)

[earthloop]

.......By the way, I would still appreciate informed opinions about Stylus RMX, particularly about the 'sound' quality of its samples.

Will Stylus' sound easily sit in a mix with other soft synth sounds? (are stylus sounds 'over processed' already???) I just don't know as I am still a bit new in the practical use of these 'instruments'!

Cheers.

[owel]

The stock sounds that come with RMX are more geared towards hip hop, r&b, breaks or something like that. So yeah, it could sound processed. But there are numerous pitch controls and edit groups you can tweak if you don't like the sound of one instrument (say the snare or hi hat or kick).

But it's not crappy processing. The sounds of RMX are high quality. I watched the demo of Guru and I was not impressed. (BTW, I have RMX and StormDrum.)

Then there are the RMX expanders which I think is the strength of RMX. Backbeat, Metamorphosis are the 2 I have. Backbeat is more general drum beats, plain drums, no overprocessed or 303 type sounds here. Just plain nice sounding acoustic drum beats. Metamorphosis is processed too but with a different music genre focus.

It opens up a new world when you mix Backbeat and any of the stock RMX beats or Backbeat and Metamorphosis... you get that steady beat with some nice secondary beats and fill ins.

Of course, there is also the Chaos control so you can add variation to the loops automatically. And again, Edit groups.

Then there is the Sound Menus which allows you to use RMX like any drum sampler like Guru. You lay out your drum tracks in your sequencer and route it to RMX.

I recommend watching the version 1.5 tutorial videos because that opened up for me lots of ways to further tweak and use RMX.

And RMX can import REX files so if you have a beat that you like (or buy REX sample CDs), convert it to REX format, import it in RMX, and remix that beat with any of the stock RMX beats or Backbeat or any of the expander loops.

[earthloop]

Hi Owel ! Thanks for your response.

Then there are the RMX expanders which I think is the strength of RMX. Backbeat, Metamorphosis are the 2 I have.

This is where I have problems...end up spending as much on drum software as, say, a good used synth rack module!!!!! (I am thinking of a Roland 5080...seem to be quite a few going on ebay lately).

I am craving a 'real' hardware instrument.

I recommend watching the version 1.5 tutorial videos because that opened up for me lots of ways to further tweak and use RMX.

Yup...if I can get them. I just can't download all those big files...I havn't got the update.

And RMX can import REX files so if you have a beat that you like (or buy REX sample CDs), convert it to REX format, import it in RMX, and remix that beat with any of the stock RMX beats or Backbeat or any of the expander loops.

I have heard that REX files do not sound that great!!? I have not used them at all. What file types does RMX use?

I am asking all these questions as I have not installed RMX yet. This is because I was promised V1.5 in the box...and I got V1.1 !

This is important because My internet situation prevents me from downloading the huge files of the upgrade and video tutorials.

But thanks again Owel. I still like the 'concept' of RMX. It's just that I can't spend much more on anything musical and I am trying to cover the basic musical bases.

Cheers!

[earthloop]

...oh yeah, I forgot...what Is Storm Drum like?

[owel]

>(I am thinking of a Roland 5080...seem to be quite a few going on ebay lately).
>I am craving a 'real' hardware instrument.

I have a Roland XV-5080 too. Well recommended. Stock drum sounds are very good. They also have expansion SRX cards but I don't have the drum card. I just have the piano srx card.

The 5080 is more of a bread-and-butter kind of synth. It can be used for anything. And you can hook up a cdrom and load Roland LCDX samples and sample CDs sold by Spectrasonics into the XV5080.

In case you dont know, Eric Persing the guy behind Spectrasonics did most of the sound design for Roland synths.


>What file types does RMX use?

It uses it's own file type. It's not a sampler. The only way you can import 3rd party files is via REX.

>I have heard that REX files do not sound that great!!?

I don't know about that. It's just a recording. If the recording sucks and the loop points are not right, it's going to suck. Whatever the format is. REX is just the packaging.

>...oh yeah, I forgot...what Is Storm Drum like?

If you're into big cinematic sound, StormDrum delivers. Except it's got a clause in the licensing you can't use the included loops for use in music libraries. Other than that, it could be used for commercial purposes...

RMX btw also has Cinematic patches, under Sound menu.

[earthloop]

Hey Owel!

I actually have a plan...there is a sort of method I am working to within my means.

I have Absynth 3 (just got that and havn't done anything with it yet)...but I got it because apart from its awsome sounds etc, I am looking to use it as possibly a sound design tool by using its audio ins to manipulate things like Roland 'bread and butter' sounds.....among other things ..like guitar

Probably the only other instrument I would be looking at to complement the others would be one of the Arturia Moog emulations . The minimoog is relatively cheap but the modular looks awesome as a sound design tool...also stand alone instruments.

I have listened to the demos on the Arturia website and they both sound fantastic!!! (that probably gives you an idea of where my head is at re sound and also music style)what I think I am really trying to achieve is a sort of software 3 or 4 piece band set up because that is my basic reference point for song writing/performing.

Anyway...it is late here...4 a.m. again!!! why do I do this???

Cheers, and thanks for your feedback owel!

[Dj DynaMix]

These programs are the non-drummers saving grace

I found this post very interesting, as I think Stylus RMX is just about the greatest VSTi I own...but I've been thinkin alot about checkin Guru out... the one thing that keeps me from buying it is that I haven't heard anyone testify about importing audio loops into Guru...and using the auto slice feature...

you see, i've went through (the trouble of) converting audio loops to REX files and importing into Stylus...it gives you such an instant way to play with loops...but what I want to do is figure out how to import a sound, map it across the pads, and play it out...that is where an MPC really shines...
Guru seemed like the first program that does this...but then everything on its websites, and indepedant reviews, makes it seems like its only good for drumming/percussive material, ie, files with lots of transients...

I wish there was some way to combine Ableton's timestretching/looping and Guru's auto-slice/mapping features...

[owel]

but what I want to do is figure out how to import a sound, map it across the pads, and play it out...that is where an MPC really shines...
Guru seemed like the first program that does this...but then everything on its websites, and indepedant reviews, makes it seems like its only good for drumming/percussive material, ie, files with lots of transients...

I wish there was some way to combine Ableton's timestretching/looping and Guru's auto-slice/mapping features...

Check out Kontakt 2.

[Dj DynaMix]

Check out Kontakt 2.

Can you expand? I figured, like other samples, it would take a short wav file and map it across keys at different pitches...that isn't what i'm talkin about tho, i'd like it to slice the file and map the slices across pads...can kontakt do this?

[syzygywell]

I purchased stylus with the misconception that it might be something I would like. I didn't count on it being the very thing I needed and use in every song. At the time I was running Logic pro 7, Live 5, Reason 3, Absynth 3, and Atmosphere. I looked at guru but thought it might be covering some of the same ground as redrum in reason and ultrabeat in logic so I went ahead and got stylus rmx.

Straight out of the box it was useful and easy to use. But now I have a fairly large 26 gb library from rexed files and it is utterly indespensable It didn't matter if some of the core library wasn't what I was looking for. I bought recycle and created some of my own sounds to be used as a rhythmic textures (I chop guitar sounds and use it with stylus effects as well as sounds from absynth and reaktor). So stylus not only has a great amount of flexibility but it sounds really incredible in my opinion. Both guru and stylus are wonderful tools though and I do plan on getting guru in the near future.

My guess is you will be happy with either. The plus side for me with spectrasonics is that 1.5 was a significant update and it was free .. the tutorials are free as well. IF bandwidth is a problem maybe you can borrow a friends to download on and burn to take home with you.