PRISTINE QUALITY RADIO SOUND

[Frank_Nasty]

My goal is to achieve radio quality solo vocals. I dont care about instruments, just the best vocals possible.

I understand the microphone used, mic placement, vocalist skills and mic techniques play important roles, but lets say i have this downpacked and its perfect.

My ears are seasoned, and my mixing skills are far beyond what they were 5 years ago when i was using my computer speakers and the plugins of acid pro. Today i use KRK RP8's as my monitors, alongside waves plugins, i have tried others, but nothing comes close to moulding and replicating sounds like the waves bundle does in my opinion. I do eq with T-Racks when needed.

NOW MY MAGICAL QUESTION IS THIS.

Is it possible to use the PREAMPS and AD converters on say the EMU 1820M or Presonus Firebox to achieve punching radio quality vocals?

I know there are 3 thousand dollar preamps and AD converters out there, which of course would be more than ideal. But is there any hope of producing better than demo quality and around radio quality solo vocals on budget equipment?

[1620drum]

Nearly all radio stations use compression and an Exciter for ther music. However if you use an Exciter on your vocals and it happens to make it on radio. Your vocals will be processed through the exciter twice and the vocals will sound horrible.

[jonnyc]

Well prestine, and radio probably shouldn't be used in the same sentence. But yeah the emu and presonus could capture sounds well enough for you to put it on the radio and it sound like other songs on the radio. I know a guy that uses all presonus pre's and he's had several local band's songs on the biggest radio station here in st. louis. In fact I know of most of the bigger studio's here in st. louis and besides 4 seasons, which most people couldn't even go there if they wanted to, none of them have what I'd call high end pre's.

[Frank_Nasty]

Jonny, thanks for the reply.....

Your right, pristine and radio shouldnt be used in the same sentence, but what i meant

was that pristine quality...crisp vocal recordings...retaining dynamic range....the Preamp

and radio sound......great converters for listening into the mix.....the AD/DA converter.

what i dont trust about emu is the preamps....the converters are mastering grade...seems like u cant go wrong there....

but presonus, i can trust their preamp....but not the converter....they dont even mention what type of ad/da converter is used....anyone know?...is it one of decent quality?

the presonus is $300.00 cheaper.....

now do you run with preamps and questionable converters and save $300.00........or do i go with the emu, get the converters and wimp out on the preamp...but loose $300.00 mostly in software and crappy effects i wont use anyways.....

can you now see the dilemna i face?

[jonnyc]

I'd go emu, and assuming there are some 1/4" trs in's I'd get something like the vtb1, its cheap but nice and if you're talented in the engineering department then you should be able to make do with that combo. I've heard problems with the firepod, lots of hiccups and other stuff. Don't get me wrong I like presonus's stuff and like I said its recorded stuff that's been on the radio but as far as converters go, I'm not real sure presonus has that down yet.

[MASSIVE Mastering]

what i dont trust about emu is the preamps....

That's a good start - Try FMR's RNP or perhaps a Grace 101. They're in another league.

the converters are mastering grade...

I hate it when they say that - Those are *anything* but "mastering grade" components in there. It's a buzzword. "Mastering Grade" can mean a lot of things. In some cases, it means "Mastering Grade." In most cases, however, it means "We want to call them something really cool" so they put "Mastering Grade" in the description to make people think that they're going to sound like a $5,000 set of "mastering grade" converters.

Anyway - If I'm not mistaken, the *chip* in the E-mu is the same AKM chip that's in the Digi. They also call it a "mastering grade" converter for some reason.

The problem is that it's the same chip in about 200 other units from Behringer to M-Audio to DBX and others. The chip is important, but it's only a tiny part of a converter's sound quality - The analog components that feed the chip are what counts.

I've heard the E-mu's converters and walked away completely unimpressed. "Mastering Grade" isn't something I'd call it -- Unless that grade was a C-minus. (Thanks, I'll be here all week Try the veal).

But I digress... Sorry - It just seems like a cheap shot when companies do that. I felt the same way when everyone started putting "Studio Monitors" on those little speakers also.

That being said - The preamps are going to be a FAR more audible upgrade in most cases. If you grab on to a solid preamp (RNP, 101, Brick... There are others) you're probably going to notice a drastic improvment - Even with those converters.

Long story short - Great converters are going to sound more "focused" than cheesy converters -- Great preamps sound more "focused" than cheesy preamps. The logical step would be to start at the FRONT of the chain - The mic and the preamp. Nail that, and the converters aren't *quite* as important.

[Dugz Ink]

was that pristine quality...crisp vocal recordings...retaining dynamic range....

Do you want to produce something like THIS RECORDING?

<-- The "reel" thing

I did that with an Electro Voice RE20, your typical mic-pre and broadcast board, a Revox reel-to-reel, and a 486dx66 computer that had a Card D+... either at 22k or 33k... definitely not at 44k. (We only had a 500Mb SCSI hard drive.) 8 years later, I pulled it off of a dusty reel, recording it with an Audiophile 2496 sound card, and converted it to an MP3.

The card D+ was a 16 bit ISA sound card that was great... 10 years ago, but it couldn't hold a candle to today's gear. In short, everything about this is "lo-fi" by today's standards.

But it still kicks ass. Why?

It starts with a good source; a voice that cuts steel.

Then you have to add talent, which is honed by experience.

Granted, nobody can make a worn out SM5 sound good, but it takes more than just "great" gear to get that incredible sound that is so good that people think it's easy.

So, start with hot pipes, voice control, and mic technique.

And spend $400 for an RE20... and $500 for an RNP... and ...

[Tweak]

Man I love your stuff!

1996! Tape? You made your point!

[Frank_Nasty]

Dugzzz....

that stuff was amazing.....and i cant believe it was produced 10 years ago with handicapped fidelity....

so i checked out the RNP preamp, but cant find any solid source on the RE20...the RNP seems solid, and i would love to try it out...

so this leads me to a question....

if i use the RNP preamp, or any other preamp of my choice....and route the output to the 1/4" input on my audio interface will it bypass the preamp on the audio interface? i am better off just stepping it up a notch and buying an audio interface with better A/D converters than the EMU 1820M or a Firebox?

[Blue Bear Sound]

Dugzzz....

that stuff was amazing.....and i cant believe it was produced 10 years ago with handicapped fidelity....

And even long before Dugs track, the Beatles used those 4-track decks with crippled fidelity... go figure...

Got news for you Frank - high-fidelity existed long before digital.... sound quality comes from talent in front of the mic, and good sound engineering behind the mic, the gear is secondary.... good gear only makes a sound engineer's job easier, it doesn't change the end result.

[Frank_Nasty]

clearly understood Blue...without any talent in my camp i dont think i would be asking these questions and i would of gave up on making quality music a long time ago. Dont get me wrong, i am no engelbert humpindink, but my music sounds okay.

but i feel that i have reached the potential of my gear and i would love to upgrade....

i have been using a TLM103 with a Tascam US-122....and i feel can get more punch and clarity out of my mic if i upgrade the preamp and converters...maybe i am wrong, and i just need to spend more time processing my vocals with precision.

[Dugz Ink]

if i use the RNP preamp, or any other preamp of my choice....and route the output to the 1/4" input on my audio interface will it bypass the preamp on the audio interface? i am better off just stepping it up a notch and buying an audio interface with better A/D converters than the EMU 1820M or a Firebox?

It really depends on what you want to do.

If I was just doing voice-overs, or recording only 1 source at a time, I would spend my money on single/dual channel pieces; you'll get more "bang" for the buck than if you buy a multi-channel mic-pre and digital interface.

The RE20 and RE27 can be purchased from Sweetwater. Just use Google.

I get some VO work done at a local studio (when our company needs VO in Spanish) and it sounds absolutely incredible... but they spent more money and use an AKG C414 and a Focusrite Red 1 Quad... a sweet combo, if you have $3000 laying around.

[Frank_Nasty]

gear like that could make a nun wet....

[cobar rubius]

an audiophile nun i suppose

[Dugz Ink]

gear like that could make a nun wet....

Yeah, I guess it's possible to work up a sweat in a those black outfits.

[Frank_Nasty]

Dugzzz.....the Fmr RNP is amazing....

i got to take a listen at a local store....and i am sold....GOOD THINGS do come in little packages....

they go for about $750.00 around these ways....

[Dugz Ink]

they go for about $750.00 around these ways....

Dude, you need to go another way! Buy it on-line and save $200.

[jlgrimes11]

Hey Johnny C. What part of St. Louis you from?

[Frank_Nasty]

the big problemo with buying it online, is the duty charge...

canandian customs hits us hard...35%....so it almost works out to the same after the hastle and service charges...

[Blue Bear Sound]

the big problemo with buying it online, is the duty charge...

canandian customs hits us hard...35%....so it almost works out to the same after the hastle and service charges...

For most electronics, the only duty that needs to be paid is the equivalent amount of GST, so 7%..... very few pieces of audio gear have duty surcharges beyond that.

[Frank_Nasty]

Bear, have you any experience purchasing gear from American sources?...

[Steven mc.]

If heard that before dugz! rockin man.

[Blue Bear Sound]

Bear, have you any experience purchasing gear from American sources?...

Yes... quite a bit...

I deal with Mercenary, Markertek, B&H, GEPCO, Sweetwater, 8thStreet..... quite a few US retailers, actually!

[lpkyer]

I deal with shipments from the U.S all the time and the only way to get a 15% (I live in quebec) is to ask for shipping from USPS.
UPS will charge 35%.