How to quiet P-90 Pickups (Single Coil)

[Tweak]

Hey all, I just got a Epiphone Casino. It's really nice, plays beautifully and sounds almost exactly how I want it to. There is just one thing wrong. The P-90 pickups on the thing, which are single coil, tend to hum and buzz. it increases as I raise the gain. I know this is normal for single coils, but I am hoping there is some way to knock this down a bit. I've got gates, and they work well, but I am looking for a way to attack it at the source, other than taking it back and getting an ES335 clone with humbuckers. I've also tried a ground lift, no difference.

Has anyone been here? Do I have to live with hum and buzz if I use P90 pickups?

[nanashiwanderer]

I think you'd probably be best to PM Dugz since he seems to know a lot about guitar design.

Does it buzz and such while your playing, and what amp are you running through. On my strat, their are settings between each pickups (on the 5 way sett9ng) when i select these, it reduces hum and buzz. If you bought the guitar for sound, going to humbuckers will have a very different sound, P90s tend to have a lot of bite (at least the one on the SG's i've played do) in them, which i haven't found in any humbucker.

[Dugz Ink]

Did I hear my name?

Looking at the guitar, I don't see any way to completely shield the components as a whole. There may be a way to replace the cover with something that's non-magnetic, thus using the cover as a shield, but I think somebody would be marketing that (somebody like Seymour Duncan) if that could be done without affecting the sound.

Gibson used to have a "dummy pickup"...

http://www.blueshawk.info/pickups.htm

I can't find any that are for sale, but you could buy a used P90... ummm... I mean, buy a new P90 on Zzounds (of course) and gut the magnet and poles, then rewire the guitar.

[Tweak]

Thanks for the responses.

I've plugged it into a little Marshall recording amp, a Behringer direct box, Vamp 2 and an RNP and they all buzz though the RNP is better. Part of it is the 3 computer monitors in here. I'm going to try shutting some of them off and find a shorter cable.

The Casino otherwise is awesome. It plays better than real deal ES335s and is lighter. I looked at it carefully and it does not look easy to mod. There's no access to the inside, other than the F-holes.

Might have to swap it for a Gretsch Country club which was another awesome semi-hollow body which appears to have humbuckers but has a slightly better sound. The epiphone Sheraton series has a good sound too, but its humbuckers are really more suited for jazz, but are awesome beautiful guitars. Better looking than the Casinos, but oddly not as playable.

[veganMalcontent]

Tweak, of all the semi-hollows out there, the Casino is probably the one I'd get because I idolize John Lennon. I'd try to make it work. I would probably look for some P-90 form factor humbucking replacement pickups if I were you. I know Seymour Duncan makes some designed to retain the characteristic tone, and I imagine there are others out there as well.


Sam

[Dugz Ink]

I looked at it carefully and it does not look easy to mod.

As far as I'm concerned, it's not a true "mod" until you carve it up.

Bring it to Nashville; I'll let you play in my wood working shop.

[veganMalcontent]

The pickups almost certainly come out through the top. It looks like you'd take the pickguard off, then unscrew the left and right screws until the pickups come out.


Sam

[Dugz Ink]

It looks like you'd take the pickguard off, then unscrew the ...

Why did you tell him that? I wanted to cut it open and trick it out!

[Dreamside]

Semi-hollows are so hard to deal with... can't replace the pickups very easily on most semis, and it's not like a strat where you can line the pickguard material with aluminum foil (no pickguard.) Yeah the pickups come up through the top but is the circuit easily accessible? The potentiometers?

Metal Pickup covers made by Gibson are shielded when wired to ground. Most P90s/soapbars have exposed plastic bobbins with the pickups. Get metal covers and connect them to the ground . If you want to get really extreme, buy some pickguard material and some aluminum foil and apply it to the back, wiring the foil to ground. But you'll have to drill holes in the back of the guitar yikes! I wouldn't want to do that.

Black PG Material
White PG MAterial
Black PG material
Shielding (aluminum, self-adhesive on one side foil) <Wired to ground>
Guitar Body

That will look alright, but you'll have to drill holes in the guitar. Not something everybody wants.

I hope that helps.

[veganMalcontent]

Yeah the pickups come up through the top but is the circuit easily accessible? The potentiometers?

The stock P-90's should be two-conductor, and the replacements will be either two-conductor or four-conductor where you can solder two of the wires together to make the whole pickup effectively a two-conductor single-coil which happens to be a humbucker. At most you're looking at six solder joints.

The easy way to do the replacement would be to cut the leads from the stock pickups leaving as much as possible on the pickup side, then solder the new pickups to the leads coming out of the guitar.

But doing it the right way looks fairly easy with this guitar. Tie a string to the selector switch so you can get it back into its hole when you're done, then unscrew the nut holding it in place and pull it out through the bridge pickup hole. If you're lucky, the leads connecting it to the pots will be long enough that you can leave them in place. Otherwise, take the knobs off, tie strings to the shafts of the pots, and unscrew them. If lady luck is just not with you, you'll also need to pull the input jack into the body. To get a string around that one, you'll probably have to make a small lasso and hook the tip connector. Then you'll definitely be able to get the switch out far enough to desolder the stock pickup leads and connect the new pickups.


Sam

[nanashiwanderer]

I'm curious listening to your music Tweak... what styles of music do you play on the electric guitar.

[Tweak]

Thanks everyone. I am gratified by the responses. The pickups are easy to get at, but the wiring is not. I hope the output jack never caves in as it will be very hard to get it out.



The original Casino I used to play in my teen years (borrowed from a friend whenever I had a gig) had access from the back. Never thought of the string idea. Thanks for that.

Starting to think there may be something wrong with it, or maybe I'm just too picky.

Here's an excerpt from a track that reveals the noise on the cleanest tone I can get, direct through the RNP.

http://www.studio-central.com/Downloads/test2.aif

Turn it up a bit, you'll hear the hum.

That came out of this, which I did today.

http://www.studio-central.com/Downloads/Sailing.mp3

What kind of music will i be doing with guitar? Ah, who knows. I wait for captivating images. I'm a melodic player. Right now just dabbling around. Next week I am thinking of a wooden piece, pan flute, 12 string, world percussion and FM synths. But I may want to try a metal piece soon. Put that hum to use. :0

[veganMalcontent]

Dang, Rich, you make me want to run out and buy a Casino!

That noise didn't sound that loud, but I guess I don't tolerate any noise running clean. Well you have my two cents.



Sam

[Dugz Ink]

That sounds like the "classic crap" you pick up from power converters, video monitors, et all. I pick up the same noise on my Washburn electric bass, which has DiMarzio humbuckers; it's being picked up by the wiring and pots, which aren't properly shielded. In my case, I'm going to take it apart (again) and put my own shielding in it... but that doesn't look like a realistic option on the Casino.

Have you tried turning off everything (even the main power) and recording into a protable?

[cobar rubius]

hey tweak...i`m also a casino owner, and i love mine! i get such a great jangly clean tone, and with the amp cranked, it gives me some really killer bite (and its fun to play with the feedback possiblities!)

i`ve found the p90s to be significantly quieter than strat pickups, but i have also had to battle the old 60 cycle hum. the solution that i came to is turning off everything that i dont need. flourescent lights, computer monitors, etc. i feel like that makes a difference. then, i played around with my actual physical placement. i dont know why, but there is one corner of my room that makes the guitar hum like crazy, but in another corner, its very quiet. also, the angle of my body and the guitar in relation to the computer monitor makes a huge difference. then, i made sure that all of my cables were well shielded so that i wasnt adding to the problem. i still get a little bit of hum, but it is negligable.

i have avoided the so called "noiseless p90s" because most of those are just stacked humbuckers which really kill your tone. i have avoided changing the pickups because i really like tone i get with the p90s. for me, the tone i get is worth a little bit of hum.

ps. in your samples...the hum is pretty limited. i personally wouldnt be too worried about it. if you listen to jimi hendrix, or eric clapton, or jeff beck, or jimmy page, or the beatles, or anyone who played a with single coils, you`ll hear just as much pickup noise or more!

[Tweak]

also, the angle of my body and the guitar in relation to the computer monitor makes a huge difference. then, i made sure that all of my cables were well shielded so that i wasnt adding to the problem. i still get a little bit of hum, but it is negligable.

Yes. Did more checking and I can get rid of 50% of it by turning 90% from facing the monitors. Whether they are off or on makes no difference.

But the more I play the Casino, the more I like it. It will not be easy to let it go. But all the same, I am going to try the Sheraton II this Friday and another pass through the Gretschs. Ive done a lot of reading and have yet to find anyone who has done a humbucker replacement and liked the result.

Thanks folks!

[Dugz Ink]

Yes. Did more checking and I can get rid of 50% of it by turning 90% from facing the monitors. Whether they are off or on makes no difference.

Are you turning off the power to their power converters? If you're using LCD screens, the converters will generate the RFI/EMI, not the screen assembly.

[The Miles Park]

Hey all, I just got a Epiphone Casino. It's really nice, plays beautifully and sounds almost exactly how I want it to. There is just one thing wrong. The P-90 pickups on the thing, which are single coil, tend to hum and buzz. it increases as I raise the gain. I know this is normal for single coils, but I am hoping there is some way to knock this down a bit. I've got gates, and they work well, but I am looking for a way to attack it at the source, other than taking it back and getting an ES335 clone with humbuckers. I've also tried a ground lift, no difference.

Has anyone been here? Do I have to live with hum and buzz if I use P90 pickups?

tweak i just bought a casino today and man what a good choice. For your humming problem single coils do hum a lot while around electronics and seeing pictures of your studio, you have a lot of electronics, try finding an area of the room where there is little to know electric current around and your problem should pretty much be solved. Sometimes you can find the "sweet spot" when postitioning yourself to record and get no hum which im sure you've already figured out but if you move there it is again.

again excellent choice of a guitar tweak.

[Tweak]

I found this solution to the hum problem on the SD forums

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/show ... ht=p90+hum

Check post #5-7 in the thread

This could give a hum--cancelling quality to the middle position, by reversing the magnets in one pup and switching the wires.


I have a feeling the Casino might prove to be difficult with this mod as i have read that the pickup cover is somehow soldered to the actual pickup. So its a warranty voiding risk, if I take it

>Are you turning off the power to their power converters? If you're using LCD screens, the converters will generate the RFI/EMI, not the screen assembly.

Thanks Dugz, I was just turning them off. And just thought that my Fantom was on 1 foot away. More stuff to try.




>again excellent choice of a guitar tweak.
I still can't believe I own a guitar that plays this nicely without spending $1000s. If I can solve the hum issue it will be even greater.

[Dugz Ink]

I found this solution to the hum problem on the SD forums

http://www.seymourduncan.com/forum/show ... hp?t=62452

Check post #5-7 in the thread

This could give a hum--cancelling quality to the middle position, by reversing the magnets in one pup and switching the wires.

If want to do that, just buy a new P90 pickup (or something similar for the "neck" position) that is set up with the opposing polarity. It's easy to check your current pickups. You can buy a fancy device from some place like Stew-Mac that is labelled properly, or buy a cheap compass from Walmart that would be backwards (since opposites attract). Either way, you just hold it close to the top of the pickup.

[Grhys]

Being a proud owner of a casino for quite a few years now, I can say that the hum thing has always kind of annoyed me. For my purposes, it's my jazz and blues guitar - whenever I need that really sweet, warm tone. But cranking the gain...forget it.

That's what my Les Paul is for

[giuseppe]

I replaced the pickups on my sheraton with Seymour Duncans and things haven't worked out well. Poor output and poor tone. Does anyone know if the white & Red wires should be soldered together or just taped off. I just taped them off.

[Dugz Ink]

Does anyone know if the white & Red wires should be soldered together or just taped off. I just taped them off.

Depends on which type of pickups you install. If they're split humbuckers (four wires) then it depeneds whether you want to wire them in series or parallel.

These guys have a great selection of wiring diagrams:
http://www.guitarelectronics.com/catego ... resources/

[giuseppe]

They are split (4 wires). Don't know the difference in sound that series vs. parallell would make (if any). I based my hook up on the SD website. There they appear to have the red and white taped off.

[skel_73]

I would like to know how all the Beatles and solo Lennon stuff where he is using this guitar seem to be free from distracting noise from the P-90s......