Korg M3

[* BC *]

Hi!

Has anyone tried the new korg M3 already? Comments? Pros, Cons?

I'm thinking of purchasing a Fantom , or the M3.

I need a good "all around" keyboard, mainly for funk (jamiroquai, for example) and jazz music, as my second keyboard.

I like Roland, but the Phantom has been a few years around already, while the M3 is brand new...

any comments would be much apreciated!

[ZenFly]

It may be new, but it didn't do it for me. The build is really pretty much like it looks...lets just say it doesn't have a presence when you manipulate the faders, switches etc.

About the faders...why 30mm (est) faders? they are so freakin' small you can't believe it.

The sounds are pretty nice, but there are only like 512 of them on board.

Anyway, I just bought a Triton Extreme 88 the same day I tried out the M3.

Sometimes new isn't better...just newer.


YmMV and all that.

[Tweak]

I went out looking for one locally but could not find one. That said, I am doing a lot of research into the M3 and the Oasys, which are quite similar in terms of function. Too bad on the mini faders. Seems like a lot of new gear gets more flimsy as time goes on.




http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--KORM361

[synthologist]

The sounds are pretty nice, but there are only like 512 of them on board.

That's disappointing. The Tritons had loads more sounds "out of the box".

[Tweak]

When I saw that in the literature I had to wonder if they had gone crazy at Korg. There are 1,028 multi samples and only 512 programs! Possibly its a mistake. Or maybe the OS is just not finished. There are other inconsistencies in the docs. At one point they say the Radias card can have 1 track of 24 voices, in another its 4 track multi timbral.



Anyway, I am theorizing that Korg is trying to shift the focus off the preset an on the phrase. Yamaha is doing that too with the Motif XS. (Which I did demo this weekend--outstanding!) No issues with build quality there. The 88 has a great feel and the sound is amazingly open.

Hence the Karma II functions--what i think korg is banking on. Welcome to automatic music production? Remember when loops "invaded" the sequencer? I think today the "phrase" is invading the workstation.

Check this out from the Motif XS description

One of the most powerful of these is Arpeggio, which lets you trigger a variety of sequenced phrases from the keyboard. There are approximately 6,000 different Arpeggio phrases on board, and you can have four different Arpeggios, playing four different instrument parts, running simultaneously-in perfect sync, of course. The music making possibilities are virtually endless. Have a drum Voice play an automatic rhythm, add an Arpeggio bass phrase, and fly in other instrument phrases as the inspiration hits you. Everything stays in sync, and everything follows your chord changes.

[ZenFly]

I did like the XT88, but it was over 1K more than the TE88. The arps are cool but overall I heard and felt something in the TE ...and I've got tons of software stuff in my DAW to make up any difference.

[jsepeta]

I still haven't even scratched the surface of my karma, but was indeed impressed by the m3. the sounds are cool and I liked the layout of controls but indeed the construction seems cheap. instead of spending $2300 on a new m3 i'd rather keep the stuff i've got - karma $650, ms2000r $300 and triton rack $800 used.

[* BC *]

Interesting.
So it seems the m3 may not be such a good choice....

How much more expesnive is the smallest Oasys than the m3? I can't seem to find the Oasys at zzounds. The build is ok?

[synthologist]

The least expensive Oasys is a 76-key version for $7499. Makes the M3 look pretty good.

[* BC *]

OUch!!

[jsepeta]

Interesting.
So it seems the m3 may not be such a good choice....

How much more expesnive is the smallest Oasys than the m3? I can't seem to find the Oasys at zzounds. The build is ok?

the m3 is not a bad choice compared to the motif xs or fantom x6, which does seem a little long in the tooth now, although it's still quite capable. i was just hoping for better build quality. the oasys looks and feels like it costs a lot of money (which it does).

not sure if i'd go as far as to say that the m3 has an unfinished OS, tweak. but there will hopefully be more preset development because 512 programs seems like not many -- but korg's site says there's room for 13 banks of sounds, which puts it more on par with the x6 which has a user bank, a card bank, and in the latest edition, banks A-I of presets (9).

http://korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp?a_pr ... egory_id=1

[Tweak]

> but korg's site says there's room for 13 banks of sounds,

My triton rack has at least 13 banks (expanded with 7 cards)

My Fantom S has about 20 or so banks (I have to use two 14-bank multi instruments in Logic to get them all in)

With a 256 MG rom and 1,000 multisamples you could easily have 4,000 programs just stacking the multisamples in different ways. Why they didn't do that is a question. Maybe they think people will select a stock program, apply a GE and save as a new preset.

Still 512? Some GM banks have 512 these days.

There is also a mysterious "PCM interface" coming.

I guess we should keep in mind that the M3 is merely the first Oasys spinoff. Maybe the 88 will have a better build. The Oasys has a great build. They should stick the M3 in the Oasys shell (without the 10" touchscreen video monitor) and charge 3 grand.

[* BC *]

the m3 is not a bad choice compared to the motif xs or fantom x6, which does seem a little long in the tooth now, although it's still quite capable. i was just hoping for better build quality.

What do you mean with long in the tooth?

[Tweak]

"Long in the tooth" is an expression for getting old.

[synthologist]

Ah, so the Motif and Fantom don't require a "root canal?"

[* BC *]

So, Korg has released the M3, Oasys and a couple more toys.
Hasn't Roland anounced anything new for the near future? any plans for a new Fantom, for instance?

thanks!

[Tweak]

Korg sort of shifted all the tiers of quality in their synth line.

The triton HI-Synthesis has trickled down to low cost units. The micro X and X50 are both in the $700 range and sound like Tritons to my ears. Still I don't think they will get rid of the Triton Extreme, which i think is fantastic. The other Tritons might go off to the land of vintage boards, if they have not already.

Oh the M3 88 key just got listed tonight.

http://www.zzounds.com/a--3745/item--KORM388 They did not undercut the Motif XS. Instead it is $300 more and $500 more than the Fantom 88, making it the most expensive 88 key workstation outside the Oasys. (lets hope thy put in some build quality at that price).

Indeed all eyes now go to Roland next winter Namm I'll bet.

[ZenFly]

I had to return to GC for some more cords and stuff today...and just had to do a reality check. They had the M3, XT6 and TE88. I started by running through the orchestra and string combis. played around with Karma, then on to the progs.

Then tried out the xt6...I thought it was actually very very good. Very deep tweakability ,but not enough to make up the over 1k difference in my TE88 (88 key model).

So they had a TE88 ...I dialed up the first Orchestra combi, and went to the M3 and dialed up it's "full orchestra" combi...and literally a/b'd them (as much as is possible on GC's monitors). In this test, NO comparison. The TE88 toasted the M3.

All completely subject to the individual, but I left very happy with my choice and look forward to cutting some tracks tonight!

[jsepeta]

"Long in the tooth" is an expression for getting old.

sorry for using the american english euphamism. sometimes i forget we have an international membership

[jsepeta]

> but korg's site says there's room for 13 banks of sounds,
My triton rack has at least 13 banks (expanded with 7 cards)

My Fantom S has about 20 or so banks (I have to use two 14-bank multi instruments in Logic to get them all in)

haven't used my triton rack in a while but here's a good pic to illustrate what i'd been confused about. the triton rack has banks A-H (8) which can be used for int(ernal) or EXB (expansion boards) with banks E, F, and G assigned by default to sample, moss, and GM. so that's 16 banks total but for some reason I thought you could only load sounds from floppy for the EXB cards into the banks E, F, G.
http://www.korgfr.net/photo/TritonRack.jpg

how do you count 20 banks in the fantom-s? was i miscalculating with my fantom-x?

[Tweak]

If you have a samplebank, the programs will default to E. Same for CD Rom banks. Bank F has a different structure--its made for MOSS, so I don't think you could write to it. GM is protected I think. Though i don't think I ever tried to mess with it.

[* BC *]

So, is a Triton extreme a better investment than a korg M3?
Will the TE be discontinued any time soon?

The TE has a more rugged construction than the M3 and thus makes for a better gig companion?

[Tweak]

Still can't find one in town. But I'd say if the build is compromised it has no business on stage. The Extreme seems strong to me. Besides, who wants that Karma II thing going off when you accidently touch a button on stage? Well, on second thought, if you are doing a one man band gig, it might be the thing!

I did play an Oasys today and got to know the Karma II functions. I really liked that. I need to make sure the Karma data can be sent out MIDI to other synths, as that will sweeten the mix if i can apply all those arps and sequences to other synths.

Though its not like me to link up another forum, here's some thoughts from harmony-central.

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/for ... 029&page=2

Here's a link to differences between the M3 and Oasys

http://www.karma-lab.com/forum/showthre ... eadid=8573

[* BC *]

Thanks !!

I haven't been able to try an M3 yet...

I was wondering if its angled screen/controller board can be "folded" (not sure how to say it) or detached in order to tranport the keyboard in an easier manner. If it can´t, more points for the TE!

Another point I'm interested in is the following: if I get an m3, i know the thing will be in the market at least 4-5 more years. Can I say the same with a TE? This is a crucial point since technical service for Korg products is bad here, if your product gets discontinued. They don't bring more spare parts.

So if a TE can be expected to be discontinued soon, its not a good investment for me.

Once again, thanks everybody!

[jsepeta]

who wants that Karma II thing going off when you accidently touch a button on stage?

if it's anything like the karma, the dedicated buttons for turning on the karma ge's and for holding the process, you won't hit them accidentally.

http://korg.com/gear/prod_info.asp?a_pr ... egory_id=1

i zoomed in and indeed there's dedicated buttons for turning the generated effects on and off, and for latching them.

**

i'd pick an M3 over the TE given the choice. GE is a pretty good thing, even if you prefer to make your own pattern-based music and not use their patterns, it's still pretty inspirational and can be used to show you the potential when programming your own GEs.

**

(edit after seeing a demo of the M3)

The M3 adds a lot of composer-friendly functions that you do not get in the Triton Extreme. The Karma generated effects are WOW and quite usable and tweakable. I think they've got a winner on their hands. Will I sell off my Karma and Triton rack to get one? no, not yet. I prefer the build quality of the Rolands to Korg this round, but once the M3 has been out for a while, I'll have more confidence in its durability. Not that I'd tour with the thing -- it would be pretty gently-used in my home studio.

oh yeah, why does the NUMBER of patches have anything to do with which synth to buy? several synths have 1000-1500 patch locations, but seriously, some musicians can get by with a couple of handfuls of favorites. i'm surprised korg didn't load 1000 sounds in the M3 just to look competitive, but the Karma features really make this a better buy for many musicians than a Fantom or Motif. I'm a simple guy though, and treat GE as an "extra", not as a main composition component. As long as I've got a good-sounding piano in my Fantom or Kurzweil, I can write a song. Oh, the M3's pianos are leagues ahead of the ones in the Triton series. More samples, more articulations, more realism. Keyboard and Future Music both say that the M3 has a great keybed -- wasn't super impressed with it myself, but they're the experts, right?